Offering constructive criticism to the social cripples in our midst since early 2005. - Page 97

Shape Shifter · 06-27-2005, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Is lying to Congress a crime? I know that at a congressional hearing you are put under oath, but in general, is lying to congress a crime? I mean if a Congressman stands up in Congress and says something, if he lies, is he committing perjury?

I think you're right. If lying in or to Congress were illegal in itself, that would be a quite empty chamber.

Shape Shifter · 06-27-2005, 05:30 PM

Or not.

"Three months into their inaugural season, the Washington Nationals are in first place. Attendance is strong, hopes are high, and the team is reportedly turning a tidy profit.
But to some Capitol Hill Republicans there is a dark cloud on the Nats' horizon: the potential that their newly adopted home team could be purchased by billionaire financier George Soros.

Earlier this month, Soros joined an ownership bid being led by entrepreneur Jonathan Ledecky. Their group is one of more than a half-dozen angling to take over the Nats, who are currently owned by Major League Baseball.

In addition to being a well-known currency speculator and philanthropist, Soros is also known in political circles for having pumped more than $20 million in the last cycle into groups seeking to unseat President Bush and elect Democrats.

While the Soros-Ledecky group is not seen as the frontrunner to win the bidding for the Nationals, who should be awarded to their new owner at the end of the 2005 season, the very prospect that Soros could have a stake in the team is enough to irritate Congressional Republicans.

"I think Major League Baseball understands the stakes," said Government Reform Chairman Tom Davis (R), the Northern Virginia lawmaker who recently convened high-profile steroid hearings. "I don't think they want to get involved in a political fight."

Davis, whose panel also oversees District of Columbia issues, said that if a Soros sale went through, "I don't think it's the Nats that get hurt. I think it's Major League Baseball that gets hurt. They enjoy all sorts of exemptions" from anti-trust laws.

Indeed, Hill Republicans could potentially make life difficult for MLB in a variety of ways. In addition to being exempt from anti-trust rules, baseball is still under scrutiny over the steroid issue. The Nats, meanwhile, hope to have a publicly-funded stadium built soon, though money for that venture is expected to come through the sale of bonds rather than a federal outlay.

Still, Rep. John Sweeney (R-N.Y.), vice chairman of the Appropriations subcommittee that covers the District of Columbia budget, said if Soros buys the team and seeks public funding for the new stadium or anything else, the GOP attitude would be, "Let him pay for it."

"We're not going to interfere with [the sale], but from a fan's perspective, who needs the politics?" Sweeney said.

Another senior Republican lawmaker who requested anonymity said that the league should be aware of the perception problem that might be associated with selling the Nats to Soros.

"Why would Major League Baseball want to get involved with George Soros?" said the lawmaker. "It's about more than just the sale price.""

http://blog.dccc.org/mt/archives/003059.html

taxwonk · 06-27-2005, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Do you think perjury should be considered a serious offence?

What laws did Bush break?

Well, I'm fairly certain it's illegal to lie to Congress when seeking its approval for combat engagements. I'm also fairly certain it's illegal to induce others to do the same.

It may not be perjury, but it's clearly criminal fraud.

taxwonk · 06-27-2005, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Clinton was a carrier of the virus. He is to blame. His legacy is legitimizing perjury and rainbow parties for our youth. It takes a fucking village to undo the damage this guy did.

I think it's the last vestige of a childhood disease he caught from Richard Nixon. Bush also appears to have been afflicted. Santorum and Delay are just evil morons. Dean, well, he appears to have been dropped on his head a lot as an infant.

I think we need to elect Jon Stewart.

Replaced_Texan · 06-27-2005, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Or not.

"Three months into their inaugural season, the Washington Nationals are in first place. Attendance is strong, hopes are high, and the team is reportedly turning a tidy profit.
But to some Capitol Hill Republicans there is a dark cloud on the Nats' horizon: the potential that their newly adopted home team could be purchased by billionaire financier George Soros.

First personal responsibility, now the free market... Today is a banner day for the core values of the party, no?

Sidd Finch · 06-27-2005, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Is lying to Congress a crime? I know that at a congressional hearing you are put under oath, but in general, is lying to congress a crime? I mean if a Congressman stands up in Congress and says something, if he lies, is he committing perjury?

Under the False Statements Act, I would think so. But if you want me to research this we'll need to open a billing file.

But, since you are so convinced that prosecuting Clinton would have saved the integrity of the judicial process -- don't you think lying to Congress -- intentionally telling Congress something false in order to procure support for a policy -- should be a serious crime? Or is cynicism about our legislative process acceptable?

Spanky · 06-27-2005, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
Well, I'm fairly certain it's illegal to lie to Congress when seeking its approval for combat engagements. I'm also fairly certain it's illegal to induce others to do the same.

It may not be perjury, but it's clearly criminal fraud.

As far as I know one ever went after Johnson for the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. In fact I have never heard any one argue that he broke any laws when he asked for that legislation. He lied and deceived Congress, but no one ever talked about prosecution.

Penske_Account · 06-27-2005, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
1. He lied to Congress. He acted in furtherance of a conspiracy to lie to Congress. He aided and abetted others in lying to Congress.

2. The President engaging in an organized campaign of lies to deceive Congress (even if they were willing dupes) is not you or I lying about some minor thing.

cite please?

Penske "I believe in WMDs" Account

Sidd Finch · 06-27-2005, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
As far as I know one ever went after Johnson for the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. In fact I have never heard any one argue that he broke any laws when he asked for that legislation. He lied and deceived Congress, but no one ever talked about prosecution.

They should have. I mean, he didn't lie about a blowjob when asked a question about irrelevant conduct in a sexual harassment suit, but lying to send men to die in a war is almost as bad.

taxwonk · 06-27-2005, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I think you're right. If lying in or to Congress were illegal in itself, that would be a quite empty chamber.

Check the Federal statues for criminal fraud. Add to that the fact that he used botht the mailand the telephone lines and email and you also have mail fraud, wire fraud, and, if the Bush administration meets the definition of an enterprise, RICO.

Sidd Finch · 06-27-2005, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
cite please?

Penske "I believe in WMDs" Account

Aw, c'mon Penske -- you still believe that Iraq was responsible for 9/11. The "Reasonable Penske Sock" test is an oxymoron.

Penske_Account · 06-27-2005, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Under the False Statements Act, I would think so. But if you want me to research this we'll need to open a billing file.

But, since you are so convinced that prosecuting Clinton would have saved the integrity of the judicial process -- don't you think lying to Congress -- intentionally telling Congress something false in order to procure support for a policy -- should be a serious crime? Or is cynicism about our legislative process acceptable?

I am okay with that as long as congressman are held to the same standard, including any statements that they make to their bosses, the people.

I am still confused as to what Bush's "lies" would be.

taxwonk · 06-27-2005, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
As far as I know one ever went after Johnson for the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. In fact I have never heard any one argue that he broke any laws when he asked for that legislation. He lied and deceived Congress, but no one ever talked about prosecution.

No one ever talks about prosecution, because he wasn't prosecuted and he was dead before Watergate. The fact is, that legal and history scholars agree almost unanimously that Johnson, Kennedy, and Nixon all committed crimes in their efforts to further prosecution of the Vietnam War.

Sidd Finch · 06-27-2005, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Apparently it's the liberals' fault that priests are pedophiles:

So says Senator Rick Frothy Mix of Lube and Fecal Matter (R-PA).

I wonder what happened to that party of personal responsibility?

I'm still waiting for Slave to tell us that this is accurate.

(FYI -- link won't work)

Spanky · 06-27-2005, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
They should have. I mean, he didn't lie about a blowjob when asked a question about irrelevant conduct in a sexual harassment suit, but lying to send men to die in a war is almost as bad.

Why don't you just say: I mean, he didn't lie under oath, but lying to send men to die in a war is almost as bad. Or at leat ad under oath to it.