Fashion Board 1-08-04 through 02-03-04 - Page 98

Aloha Mr. Learned Hand · 01-14-2004, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I would agree. Except, every general manager who has yet to win a championship is in the same exact position. What makes you so dead set on thinking he will be unsuccessful?

TM

I dunno. I just wasn't impressed with the job he did with the Pacers. I'm not saying he won't be successful, and I could be wrong, but the signs I've seen so far don't lead me to believe he will at this point.

Tyrone Slothrop · 01-14-2004, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
What makes you so dead set on thinking he will be unsuccessful?

Maybe he'll do for the Knicks what he did for the CBA.

Did you just call me Coltrane? · 01-14-2004, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I would agree. Except, every general manager who has yet to win a championship is in the same exact position. What makes you so dead set on thinking he will be unsuccessful?

TM

While his duties are much different now, he can't coach his way out of paper bag. He makes Mike Martz look like John Nash. The Pacers should have had a dynasty two years ago. Coaching and GM-ing are completely different, but I could have coached that Pacers team to the finals. The only thing he did in Toronto as a GM was get McGrady - a no-brainer if I ever saw one.

SlaveNoMore · 01-14-2004, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Aloha Mr. Learned Hand
As a follower of the game, not that I really have an NBA rooting interest or anything, I personally have seen nothing from Isiah off the court that leads me to believe that he knows much about coaching or building a championship-caliber NBA franchise.

I know the situation with the Knicks has been bad for a number of years, but if people think Isiah's the savior of the team, I've got news for them. I just don't see it happening.

The prior GM of the Knicks got the team into a lose-lose situation.

Little Talent - No Cap Room - No Youth

In less than 2 weeks, Zeek upgraded the team's talent immensely by giving up nothing but dead weight and unproven potential [Lampe and Vujanic]. If anything, he gets a "A" for effort off the bat.

You can say the same for lots of young GMs too. Kiki? Bird? What have these guys done? Very few GMs in the game can claim a championship these days.

Aloha Mr. Learned Hand · 01-14-2004, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The prior GM of the Knicks got the team into a lose-lose situation.

Little Talent - No Cap Room - No Youth

In less than 2 weeks, Zeek upgraded the team's talent immensely by giving up nothing but dead weight and unproven potential [Lampe and Vujanic]. If anything, he gets a "A" for effort off the bat.

True. No argument with the talent he got in the Phoenix trade. What may come back to haunt him is giving up the 2 #1 picks...

Hank Chinaski · 01-14-2004, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
The Pacers should have had a dynasty two years ago.

If by dynasty you mean getting to the finals and losing for the last 2 years, your point might be plausible. No east team has a chance till someone gets a center who can play with Duncan or Shaq.
The real question about Isiah's ability isn't coaching Indiana, or running the CBA. Look to Toronto.
Personally, I think he could help the Knicks. He's seen how his old partner Dumars is building a team. He knows how to keep egos in check to win, and he's got the stats to reel in wayward stars. Give him a chance; I think some of the negativity is because he is the most unfairly hated guy* in basketball. He didn't do anything in Detroit but win at all costs. If he puts that attitude in the Knicks they'll be okay. people hate him because of Jordan/Bird baggage, but he was as tough a competitor as I've seen.

* of course the most unfairly hated guy is Laimbeer, but you wouldn't understand. It's a Detriot thing.

SlaveNoMore · 01-14-2004, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Aloha Mr. Learned Hand
True. No argument with the talent he got in the Phoenix trade. What may come back to haunt him is giving up the 2 #1 picks...

Yes, but if we had kept them, I'm sure we'd pick some stud like Frederic Weis.

(and while we talk about bust draft picks, Yinka Dinka Dare R.I.P.)

ThurgreedMarshall · 01-14-2004, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
While his duties are much different now, he can't coach his way out of paper bag.

We didn't hire him to coach.

Quote:

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
The Pacers should have had a dynasty two years ago. Coaching and GM-ing are completely different, but I could have coached that Pacers team to the finals.

Dynasty? You're crazy. Are the Nets a dynasty? That's as far they would have gone. It's been all about the west coast for years. They should have gone at least one of those years, but they were never that great a team (read: not the greatest players in the world either).

Quote:

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
The only thing he did in Toronto as a GM was get McGrady - a no-brainer if I ever saw one.

Of course. Hindsight = 20/20. What do you think of the general managers of the following teams?:

Philadelphia
Boston
Vancouver
Denver
Boston
New Jersey
Golden State

Because with the number 2 through 8 picks, they passed over McGrady for Van Horn, Chauncey Billups, Antonio Daniels, Tony Battie, Ron Mercer, Tim Thomas and Adonal Foyle, respectively. Were all those general managers brain dead at the time or just now?

I don't think he'll be our saviour. But jesus, man. He's made some moves so far that I have no problem with. He's upgraded us roster-wise and coach-wise in like 3 weeks. I'm going to give him a chance.

TM

ThurgreedMarshall · 01-14-2004, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aloha Mr. Learned Hand
True. No argument with the talent he got in the Phoenix trade. What may come back to haunt him is giving up the 2 #1 picks...

Could be. Especially if they turn out to be lotteries. Otherwise, you gotta give some to get some. No?

TM

Hank Chinaski · 01-14-2004, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
with the number 2 through 8 picks, they passed over McGrady for ........ Chauncey Billups,
TM

McGrady, moping on a dead end team, and who's the number one rated point in the East right now?

Isiah will help- you will at least become respectable, but do not dog Chauncey.

(I'll ignore basebal, but don't talk this shit)

edit: baseball was spelled properly at first. A moderator or admin is trying to wreck my credibilty. NTTAWWT

Tyrone Slothrop · 01-14-2004, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
What do you think of the general managers of the following teams?:

Philadelphia
Boston
Vancouver
Denver
Boston
New Jersey
Golden State

Because with the number 2 through 8 picks, they passed over McGrady for Van Horn, Chauncey Billups, Antonio Daniels, Tony Battie, Ron Mercer, Tim Thomas and Adonal Foyle, respectively. Were all those general managers brain dead at the time or just now?

I thought we all promised not to bring up Rick Pitino again. Next time, spoiler space please.

str8outavannuys · 01-14-2004, 09:56 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1708227

[spree: Jeff Garcia . . . BUSTED! But I'm sure he looked fabulous!]

ltl/fb · 01-14-2004, 10:13 PM

Did that NW Native person really leave? Or is it just lurking as advised? While it puts the lotion on its skin, of course.

Watchtower · 01-14-2004, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Did that NW Native person really leave? Or is it just lurking as advised? While it puts the lotion on its skin, of course.

He and I had a very pleasant pm exchange after the lynching (and I'm sad to say I participated in that), and he was sincere throughout. He may well watch what is going on on the Pacific Northwest board, and look to engage in some more honest and forthright discussion, but really didn't find his brief time here terribly enjoyable.

Brings up a couple thoughts I had: might there be a point to a board that was intended for sincere, real discussions? Perhaps even one where people could use their real names? (No, strike that, I'm sure you'd all be figuring out who I was from accent). He was someone who wanted to talk sincerely about the law and get some comraderie, not just pary back and forth.

ltl/fb · 01-14-2004, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Watchtower
He and I had a very pleasant pm exchange after the lynching (and I'm sad to say I participated in that), and he was sincere throughout. He may well watch what is going on on the Pacific Northwest board, and look to engage in some more honest and forthright discussion, but really didn't find his brief time here terribly enjoyable.

Brings up a couple thoughts I had: might there be a point to a board that was intended for sincere, real discussions? Perhaps even one where people could use their real names? (No, strike that, I'm sure you'd all be figuring out who I was from accent). He was someone who wanted to talk sincerely about the law and get some comraderie, not just pary back and forth.

I think you mean "parry" and the "back and forth" may be redundant with that word, or possibly it's just not an apposite word. I think parry is warding off an attack, and doesn't imply a the counter-attack that would be necessary for it really to be a back and forth thing. I suppose it didn't like the grammar critiques either.

Obviously it didn't take the time to read the board at all if it was under any illusions of having serious discussions on the FB.

Did it establish that it was a he?