Happy Birthday, Preston Michael Spears Federline and other Certain Special Someones!

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by baltassoc
Because a considerable number of people associated with Notre Dame are actually Irish, or decendents of the Irish. Because ND goes over and plays a football game in Ireland every couple of years and sells out Croke Park (hell, they're allowed to play in Croke Park, which is otherwise allowed only to host traditional Irish sports - rugby and soccer are not permitted). Because ND has a giagantic Irish Studies program dedicated to studying both the history and culture of Irland on the one side and studying methods of resolving the continuing political strife in the country (in a serious way, not in a give the IRA arms kind of way).

I'm not seeing that connection at Florida State.

Hey, we have indian casinos here in Florida.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by baltassoc
Because a considerable number of people associated with Notre Dame are actually Irish, or decendents of the Irish. Because ND goes over and plays a football game in Ireland every couple of years and sells out Croke Park (hell, they're allowed to play in Croke Park, which is otherwise allowed only to host traditional Irish sports - rugby and soccer are not permitted). Because ND has a giagantic Irish Studies program dedicated to studying both the history and culture of Irland on the one side and studying methods of resolving the continuing political strife in the country (in a serious way, not in a give the IRA arms kind of way).

I'm not seeing that connection at Florida State.

ETA: I can't believe I just defended fucking Notre Dame.

2, except for the last sentence.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by sunnybunny
I think you have a crush on me.

Yep. You, paigow, nfh and purse junkie. I want you all.

TM

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by baltassoc
Because a considerable number of people associated with Notre Dame are actually Irish, or decendents of the Irish. Because ND goes over and plays a football game in Ireland every couple of years and sells out Croke Park (hell, they're allowed to play in Croke Park, which is otherwise allowed only to host traditional Irish sports - rugby and soccer are not permitted). Because ND has a giagantic Irish Studies program dedicated to studying both the history and culture of Irland on the one side and studying methods of resolving the continuing political strife in the country (in a serious way, not in a give the IRA arms kind of way).

I'm not seeing that connection at Florida State.

ETA: I can't believe I just defended fucking Notre Dame.

Wasn't SD's point that "Fighting Irish" stereotypes Irish as drunken brawlers, so the "fighting" part of the name is problematic, not the "Irish" part.

"Courteous Irish" doesn't have much of a ring to it though.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by soup sandwich
I hope the Astros make it to the series, too. But lest we forget:

Six outs away from the World Series, up 7-2, with Nolan Ryan on the mound and the 16 inning game .

No one needs to remind me of a Houston team's ability to fuck up at the last minute.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Yep. You, paigow, nfh and purse junkie. I want you all.

TM

Concurrently?

[soup sandwich]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
No one needs to remind me of a Houston team's ability to fuck up at the last minute.

So there's no need to post this?

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
No one needs to remind me of a Houston team's ability to fuck up at the last minute.

See you on Saturday?

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
Wasn't SD's point that "Fighting Irish" stereotypes Irish as drunken brawlers, so the "fighting" part of the name is problematic, not the "Irish" part.

"Courteous Irish" doesn't have much of a ring to it though.

The wikipedia article on Notre Dame (obviously not necessarily authority) says this:

Notre Dame has its athletic teams known as the Fighting Irish. Exactly where and how Notre Dame's athletic nickname came to be never has been perfectly explained. One story suggests the moniker was born in 1899 with Notre Dame leading Northwestern 5-0 at halftime of a game in Evanston, Illinois. The Loras Football standout, Waldo, at tight-end began to chant, "Kill the Fighting Irish, kill the Fighting Irish," as the second half opened. Another tale has the nickname originating at halftime of the Notre Dame-Michigan game in 1909. With his team trailing, one Notre Dame player yelled to his teammates - who had names like Dolan, Kelly, Glynn, Duffy and Ryan - "What's the matter with you guys? You're all Irish and you're not fighting worth a lick." Notre Dame came back to win the game and the press, after overhearing the remark, reported the game as a victory for the "Fighting Irish."

The most generally accepted explanation is that the press coined the nickname as a characterization of Notre Dame athletic teams, their never-say-die fighting spirit and the Irish qualities of grit, determination and tenacity. The term likely began as an abusive expression tauntingly directed toward the athletes from the small, private, Catholic institution. Notre Dame alumnus Francis Wallace popularized it in his New York Daily News columns in the 1920s. Another such example is that of Father Corby and the Irish Brigade of the American Civil War, dubbed "The Fighting Irish."

My high school teams were called The Rebels, and we had a paiper mache 10 foot Johnny Reb as our mascot and our black and red colors sort of resembled Confederate flags. Maybe my junior or senior year, the offensiveness of the mascot came up, and Johnny Reb was done away with (I think they turned him into keychains), and we were just the Rebels without a mascot.

Maybe three or four years ago, someone decided that wasn't good enough, so a school wide referendum was held (including imput from the alumni) and I think it was last year that the name changed to The Mustangs.

I kinda liked the Rebels as a name (without Johnny Reb), but given the history of the word with relation to our school, we were never going to drop the association with the Confederacy unless we dropped the name. I was one of four minorities in my graduating class, and I think the school finally clued in that retaining traditions that are offensive doesn't really help with minority recruitment.

Kinda sorta related, my college team changed its name in the 30s. The team name, like the Fighting Irish, was supposed to evoke the fierce tenacity of a particular ethnic group in central Europe. That ethnic group started, er, fiecely and tenaciously trying to eradicate many of the other ethnic groups in central Europe, and my college decided that we didn't want to be associated with them anymore. We are now an extinct flightless water fowl. Much less fiercly tenacious, but more accurately descriptive of a Division III team.

ETA: Er, college website says the name was changed in the teens. I assume the ethnic group was pissing people off then too.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
.

Kinda sorta related, my college team changed its name in the 30s. The team name, like the Fighting Irish, was supposed to evoke the fierce tenacity of a particular ethnic group in central Europe. That ethnic group started, er, fiecely and tenaciously trying to eradicate many of the other ethnic groups in central Europe, and my college decided that we didn't want to be associated with them anymore. We are now an extinct flightless water fowl. Much less fiercly tenacious, but more accurately descriptive of a Division III team.

The University of El Paso Mafia Hitmen?

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
See you on Saturday?

If you can make it down to Houston, I can show you the baseball stadium.

[mmm3587]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
Wasn't SD's point that "Fighting Irish" stereotypes Irish as drunken brawlers, so the "fighting" part of the name is problematic, not the "Irish" part.

"Courteous Irish" doesn't have much of a ring to it though.

Maybe, but I don't think that's the reason they're the Fighting Irish. Aren't lots of mascots the "fighting" something, or the "running" something? Even with all the comments about the "drunken" or "fighting" Irish, there isn't much derision of them as the mascot. In fact, a lot of people who actually are of Irish descent like Notre Dame. Every time I go to a Notre Dame game and walk around the campus, it's all about respect and honor and tradition. The leprechaun-guy cheerleader isn't goofy - just dressed goofy - he's doing all the chees and pushups and all that stuff with everyone.

Contrast this with the Native American mascots, which are more based in stereotypes, do absurd things that aren't based in reality, aren't supported by the respective "real" people from that ethic group and aren't represented in significant number by the people who comprise that group.

The NCAA is about to play hardball with all the college teams, and the pro sports teams will have to do so next. The Redskins, in particular, have to be on their way out pretty soon. That's a legitimate slur.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
If you can make it down to Houston, I can show you the baseball stadium.

I'll look for flights. I don't even know how to react. Welcome to NeverBeenHereBeforeSoIdon'tKnowWhattoDoVille. Population: Me.

Da Sox.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
Wasn't SD's point that "Fighting Irish" stereotypes Irish as drunken brawlers, so the "fighting" part of the name is problematic, not the "Irish" part.

"Courteous Irish" doesn't have much of a ring to it though.

balt was raising a "standing" argument, or maybe a "free pass" argument. Since Irish people ran ND he argues they can call themselves the Drunkin Irishmen or whatever, like rappers can say N-----.

To me ND is okay because the sterotypes are dead, or at least near to it. plus it's one school, not an entire Catagory of mascot, and that makes it somehow less objectonable.

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
balt was raising a "standing" argument, or maybe a "free pass" argument. Since Irish people ran ND he argues they can call themselves the Drunkin Irishmen or whatever, like rappers can say N-----.

To me ND is okay because the sterotypes are dead, or at least near to it. plus it's one school, not an entire Catagory of mascot, and that makes it somehow less objectonable.

It's not my point - I was just bored and following up.
I'm part Irish and I like to fight. Go me.