Nutjobs Ranting About Politics.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by bilmore
You left out the part about Kerry's staff first denying that Kerry ever claimed to have been in Cambodia, and then, when confronted with his Senate testimony transcript, stammering, and promising to call the reporter back.

Which they never did.

And they still haven't done.

If Kerry comes out tomorrow and says that he was in Cambodia, then I will give this one a LOT less credence. But that hasn't yet been part of his response to this days-old blip.

A Kerry staffer not being familiar with everything the guy has uttered in his long public career does not make Kerry a liar. And if I were the Kerry campaign -- an odd hypothetical, I know -- I would be trying to make this story go away by ignoring it, a bit of damage control that has nothing to do with its truth or falsity.

And you don't take issue with Drum's point that nothing contradicts Kerry. So the conservative line is, we've thrown a lot of mud and Kerry isn't working hard enough to wipe it away, so he must deserve to be dirty.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Double post. Sorry.

Al-Qaeda Chatter Deteriorates Into Gossip
WASHINGTON, DC—Terrorist chatter about a possible al-Qaeda attack against the U.S. deteriorated into gossip Monday, according to top federal intelligence officials. "We intercepted a phone call in which two al-Qaeda operatives were discussing plans to conduct reconnaissance missions at certain U.S. landmarks," CIA operative Tim Huber said. "But the conversation quickly devolved into a 20-minute discussion of what someone named Majida Sa'doon was doing at Kanebi Hadi Hameeb's home at sunrise." Huber added that the gossip is a "definite improvement" over the glut of small talk about recipes, children, and goats that dominated conversation at this time last year.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
You don't seem to have any source establishing that he couldn't have been in Cambodia.

The Dems don't seem to have any sources showing that Bush was AWOL either, but that doesn't stop them from peddling their story.

BTW - there are plenty of sources showing exactly where Kerry was on that Christmas Eve of yore.

PS - Yglesias seems to think this story has legs, even as he throws out that same little line of yours.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The Dems don't seem to have any sources showing that Bush was AWOL either, but that doesn't stop them from peddling their story.

I thought the records released were very clear in establishing that he didn't show up for service for a good long time. AWOL has a technical meaning that may not apply here.

eta: See, e.g., this post from Kevin Drum's archive. In May 1972 Bush moved to Alabama to work on a campaign and did not show up for drills for six months. I know there have been subsequent additions to the story, but I don't think any controvert this.

BTW - there are plenty of sources showing exactly where Kerry was on that Christmas Eve of yore.

What does Drum have wrong? Inter alia, he points out:

• Kerry's war journal mention only that he was near the Cambodian border on Christmas Eve, not across it. (Although the journal entry ends with a sarcastic message to his superiors: "Merry Christmas from the most inland Market Time unit" — at a minimum a reference to being right on top of the Cambodian border. Then: "You hope that they'll court marshal you or something because that would make sense" — possibly a reference to crossing the border.)

PS - Yglesias seems to think this story has legs, even as he throws out that same little line of yours.

Whether it has legs and whether it is true are two different things, although I can see why you guys are more interested in whether it has legs.

Go on, keep talking about his service.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Double post. Sorry.

A. Saying it twice don't make it true.

B. Kerry could have made this go away three days ago with a simple, easy-to-verify statement. It's been dead silence. That silence allows for, and almost mandates, the logical conclusion that he's been lying for years - to Congress, to the public, probably to his priest - about THE central tenet of his campaign - his service - in order to promote his views. The importance of this lies not in what we think of his actual experience in Nam, but in his honor - his truthfulness.

And, what do you mean by "nothing contradicts Kerry"? If there were "nothing", we wouldn't be discussing this, right? There's "something".

Fuck, it's all as ephemeral and noteworthy as "I invented the internet". Thing is, this isn't a campaign about two candidates with differing plans for our country. It isn't about the simple divide between liberal and conservative. And, at this point, it's not even about Bush-haters and Kerry-haters. It's gone way past that. It's now simply two armed camps made up of the "bases" who hate each other so much that no prisoners will be taken. People are now fighting dirty for this election simply because they can't stand the thought of those other shits who've been calling them idiots and liars and assholes for a year or more winning.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Go on, keep talking about his service.

To be fair, we should only do that for the same amount of time you covered "imminent".

Or "yellowcake".

Or . . .

(No, wait, we can't - the election's THIS November.)

Like I said - delicious irony. I don't even care anymore if this stuff's true - you guys have set the bar that low.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Kerry Unveils One-Point
Plan For Better America

I still wish Dean had won. I could get excited about that kind of campaign.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What does Drum have wrong? Inter alia, he points out:

• Kerry's war journal mention only that he was near the Cambodian border on Christmas Eve, not across it. (Although the journal entry ends with a sarcastic message to his superiors: "Merry Christmas from the most inland Market Time unit" — at a minimum a reference to being right on top of the Cambodian border. Then: "You hope that they'll court marshal you or something because that would make sense" — possibly a reference to crossing the border.)

Why would he even bother to speak of this diary? Is this a cute way to quietly slide past Kerry's testimony to the Senate where he said he was in Cambodia that Christmas day? Testimony that was presumably well-thought-out, and was offered to support his ideology? Or does he get Senatorial immunity for that?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by bilmore
To be fair, we should only do that for the same amount of time you covered "imminent".

Or "yellowcake".

Or . . .

(No, wait, we can't - the election's THIS November.)

Like I said - delicious irony. I don't even care anymore if this stuff's true - you guys have set the bar that low.

I knew I felt strange for some reason earlier this evening. My shoulders felt a sudden sense of relaxation they haven't felt in months, like a great weight had been lifted.

Welcome back.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by bilmore
B. Kerry could have made this go away three days ago with a simple, easy-to-verify statement. It's been dead silence. That silence allows for, and almost mandates, the logical conclusion that he's been lying for years - to Congress, to the public, probably to his priest - about THE central tenet of his campaign - his service - in order to promote his views. The importance of this lies not in what we think of his actual experience in Nam, but in his honor - his truthfulness.

Right. Because the Swift Vets would have gone away if Kerry had made that statement, and the media would have quickly gone back to discussing more important stories.

Just like Glenn Reynolds attacked the Rassmann piece as not saying enough, his attackers will never be satisfied. There's no point engaging them because it's about the charge, not the verdict.

And, what do you mean by "nothing contradicts Kerry"? If there were "nothing", we wouldn't be discussing this, right? There's "something".

So what is it? Official statements that we weren't in Cambodia yet? You're old enough to know better.

People are now fighting dirty for this election simply because they can't stand the thought of those other shits who've been calling them idiots and liars and assholes for a year or more winning.

It's enough to make a conservative regret what they did to Bill Clinton, eh?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by bilmore
To be fair, we should only do that for the same amount of time you covered "imminent".

Or "yellowcake".

Or . . .

(No, wait, we can't - the election's THIS November.)

Like I said - delicious irony. I don't even care anymore if this stuff's true - you guys have set the bar that low.

I know you weren't here, but I'm not being sarcastic. Please keep talking about Kerry's war service. The kind of people who follow the details of the Swift Vets are a lost cause in any event, but the contrast between what Kerry did in Vietnam and what Bush did in Alabama helps Kerry.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Welcome back.

Thanks!

(I forgot how much I (rather sickly) enjoy this shit.)

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The kind of people who follow the details of the Swift Vets are a lost cause in any event

Indeed.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by bilmore
"The Mary Ann myth:
Kerry falsifies NH woman’s story

NEXT TIME John Kerry accuses President Bush of misleading the American people, remember Mary Ann Knowles.

Knowles is the Hudson woman whose battle with breast cancer Kerry has turned into a campaign anecdote. Here is what Kerry said about Knowles during his acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention on July 29:

“What does it mean when Mary Ann Knowles, a woman with breast cancer I met in New Hampshire, had to keep working day after day right through her chemotherapy, no matter how sick she felt, because she was terrified of losing her family’s health insurance? America can do better. And help is on the way.”

What it means is that John Kerry is fibbing. As Union Leader correspondent Scott Brooks reported on Sunday, Mary Ann Knowles did not have to work through her chemotherapy for fear of losing her health insurance. Employed by Elderhostel, the Boston-based non-profit travel organization for people 55 and older, Mary Ann had 26 weeks of paid disability at her disposal. More was available for a long-term illness. She did not have to work through her chemotherapy. She chose to.

Knowles would have lost some income had she taken the disability leave, said her husband, who is unemployed. But she would not have lost her health insurance, as Kerry has repeatedly misstated.

Asked if the Kerry campaign bothered to get the details of Knowles’ personal story, spokeswoman Judy Reardon said Kerry’s use of the words “every day” in describing Knowles story was “a colloquialism.” She went on: “When a woman has a mastectomy and goes through therapy, I don’t need to double-check on her.”

In other words, Kerry knowingly used the words “every day” when he did not mean “every day,” and he used the phrase: “she still has to go to work every day — just to hang on to their health insurance” when she did not have to work every day and was in no danger of losing her health insurance.

In short, he lied. Repeatedly.

With all that has come to light about Kerry’s voting record and his Vietnam service, his misrepresentation of Marry Ann Knowles’ story should surprise few. Kerry cannot even get his own personal history straight, so how can we expect him to correctly relay someone else’s? "

(From The Union Leader . )

Remember "I invented the internet"? Remember how Gore never recovered popular credibility?

Kerry invented . . . well . . . lots of stuff, apparently.

I'm sure this has a lot of influence with her unemployed husband. Wonder how he's spending the extra money from his tax cut? I won't even go into how lame this shit is compared to lying about, oh, leading a nation into war. On the bright side, I'm sure the title of the article will inspire a Gilligan plot synopsis soon enough.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by bilmore
The importance of this lies not in what we think of his actual experience in Nam, but in his honor - his truthfulness.

Your president is taking the high road. Why is that?