Nutjobs Ranting About Politics.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
By any reasonable measure, the Swifties have been discredited.

You always state this as truth, and you're wrong. One of the allegations was that Kerry was lying when he claimed (several times, for specific purpose) to have spent Crhistmas in Cambodia. Kerry has now admitted this was true. And, I think I read that his campaign has also admitted that his first medal was granted for a self-inflicted wound not in the presence of the enemy (which, I think, means he didn't properly qualify). So, those have certainly not been discredited. I don't know enough to speak about the other allegations, but I do know that you seem to be taking the NYT approach - we'll just keep saying it's garbage without dealing with it.

The point was not to find the truth, it was to smear Kerry to take him down. Hell, they're not even pissed off at him over what happened in Vietnam -- it's what he did when he got back that bugs them.

All true. And, again, I do think that the bias of a speaker is pertinent to deciding if the speaker is telling the truth. But, Kerry has admitted that they were truthful for at least two of the claims. So, that weighs in their favor, in my eyes.

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by bilmore
A surrender versus a rout that leaves lots of angry, frustrated men with guns.

Mostly, the gist of this theme is that our attack was too successful. We should have strung it out and slaughtered more of them.

Or maybe we shouldn't have disbanded the army, sending them home with guns but no jobs.

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
US military=Barry Sanders. Kerry= the GM who decided not to renegotiate his bonus.

US military=Ricky Williams. W=weeeeeeeeeeeeed.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Let me explain a way you can understand C. A few years ago the Lions would make the playoffs every year and lose in the first round. that wasn't good enough so the public demanded they fire the coach and QB. they've been something like 5 and 43 since then and haven't won a road game in years. Sometimes you have to recognize that what you've got may not be great but its better than the alternatives. See?

So terrorism = the Joey Harrington experiment?

So, who is Bush? Wayne Fontes or Marty Mornhinweg? Yikes.

I'm thinking Gary Moeller since they have the drunkenness thing in common. Then again, Fontes was known as Cocaine Wayne.

This is tough!!

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
By any reasonable measure, the Swifties have been discredited. Which they knew would happen. The point was not to find the truth, it was to smear Kerry to take him down. Hell, they're not even pissed off at him over what happened in Vietnam -- it's what he did when he got back that bugs them

By any reasonable measure, all of Kerry's actions during the war, and his statements on same (accumulated over 35 years) have been discredited. Which Kerry should have known would happen - even with the pathetically partisan media covering for him.

And why should the Swifties personal disdain for Kerry's post-War comments and actions minimize their statements? Isn't this the point?

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
By any reasonable measure, all of Kerry's actions during the war, and his statements on same (accumulated over 35 years) have been discredited.

Fair point. Deep down, I always suspected he was never really on a "swiftboat" anyway.

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
By any reasonable measure, all of Kerry's actions during the war, and his statements on same (accumulated over 35 years) have been discredited.

Yeah. Rassmann's actually dead.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Are you serious. It is one thing to say you didn't see him there. That proves that, well, you didn't see him there. It doesn't prove that he wasn't there, and if others did see him there that is very credible to me.

On the swiftees, you have differing accounts from people that were all present at the events in question. I'm not sure why either group is more credible than the other.

Actually, most of the so-called swifties weren't there, but were on other boats or were folks somewhere in a chain of command. The guys who were there overwhelmingly back Kerry.

Now, try to say that about W's national guard service -- he can't find the guys who were there!

By the way, I find Bush's apparent shirking of his duty astonishing. If you've got to do something, NG is a pretty good gig - a far cry from a sweltering jungle teaming with exotic rodents. I spent my youth around NG camps, hanging out w/ my dad in the BOQ, having underage beers with the guys, learning that trig is good because it helps you blow up surplus equipment with a howitzer. Why would Bush, noted party animal that he was, avoid this? He must have thought it was beneath him or something.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

More Today

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
noted party animal that he was

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by bilmore
You always state this as truth, and you're wrong. One of the allegations was that Kerry was lying when he claimed (several times, for specific purpose) to have spent Crhistmas in Cambodia. Kerry has now admitted this was true. And, I think I read that his campaign has also admitted that his first medal was granted for a self-inflicted wound not in the presence of the enemy (which, I think, means he didn't properly qualify). So, those have certainly not been discredited. I don't know enough to speak about the other allegations, but I do know that you seem to be taking the NYT approach - we'll just keep saying it's garbage without dealing with it.

As I said, he was on the Cambodian border on Christmas Eve* and in Cambodia later. Brinkley, for example, corroborates this. He said that he was there on Christmas Eve maybe three times in 20 or so years. (BTW, this was not in the Swift ads that I saw. If you look those references, you will see that the specific date on which he was there was not material, except rhetorically. If this is the best you got, you don't got much.

On the "self-inflicted" wound, he was injured while blowing up VC stockpiles, right? It's not like he was trying to hurt himself. Here again, the substance of the allegation is not particularly damaging to Kerry, except that Swifties blowhards** are trying to tar Kerry with the words "self-inflicted" to make it sound like he injured himself to avoid service or something.

I've looked at this stuff. It's garbage. The Swifties repeatedly discredit themselves by changing their story and contradicting themselves in a way that would have you singing "flip-flopper" and "liar" if Kerry was speaking.*** It should not surprise anyone that the recollections of young men in battle will vary, and the Swifties are doing their level best to sell this as Kerry mendacity. Even Isabella Rosselini's face will look imperfect if you look close enough.

Under fire, he saved Rassaman's life. That was heroic. The stuff you're trumpeting is extraneous bullshit that doesn't change this.

* He said Christmas Eve, not Christmas, though I'm not holding it against you because I understand you profess to be engaged in a lengthy process of information gathering so that you can make up your mind.

** And now yourself, presumably unwittingly as you profess to be in engaged in a lengthy process of information gathering so that you can make up your mind.

*** I am sure that you will discover this in your information gathering.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I spent my youth around NG camps, hanging out w/ my dad in the BOQ, having underage beers with the guys, learning that trig is good because it helps you blow up surplus equipment with a howitzer. Why would Bush, noted party animal that he was, avoid this?

Math is hard?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
So terrorism = the Joey Harrington experiment?

So, who is Bush? Wayne Fontes or Marty Mornhinweg? Yikes.

I'm thinking Gary Moeller since they have the drunkenness thing in common. Then again, Fontes was known as Cocaine Wayne.

This is tough!!

Fontes=Clinton
Moeller=W
Kerry=Marty

Millen should have given Moeller more time. He was hit with the residue of fontes fuck ups. He didn't give Moeller the chance, and we took continous losses for a long while.

[SlaveNoMore]

Secret_Agent_Man
I just hope that the mainstream "liberal media" won't be afraid to pick up this story and run with it like FNC did with the SwiftBoats ads. The barrage of vitriol from the right regarding media bias may cause them to refrain.

S_A_M

Do you think that when "mainstream media" (referring to it as liberal is redundant) tries this Reserve angle for now, what, the Third time, they will bother to mention that Ben Barnes personally has raised more than $500,000 for John Kerry's presidential campaign?

Clearly this hack has a vested financial interest in seeing Kerry win.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
By any reasonable measure, all of Kerry's actions during the war, and his statements on same (accumulated over 35 years) have been discredited. Which Kerry should have known would happen - even with the pathetically partisan media covering for him.

It puzzles me that you think this, since you otherwise seem to be a fairly level-headed guy. The fact that Rassaman is around to tell his story kinda disproves what you're saying.