Patting the wrists, rolling the eyes.

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by Spanky
.

Here we go. To state the painfully obvious, the best way to ferret out fraud is cross referencing. Right now there are many people that use mulitple Social Security numbers for various reasons. There is no picture that comes with the Social Security cards so it is really hard to pick them out. The voter registration is also not cross referenced against social security numbers. When someone dies there information is not automatically passed to the voter rolls or the social security administration, or anywhere for that matter. If there was one central ID card for all government stuff, then it would be easy to require that all deaths be reported to that system. That would automatically clear all the old social security numbers and the dead people on voter rolls. IN addition, you would get one when you were born and therefore would not have to get a social security card later or any other ID later. As far as voting, everyone would already be registered, therefore ending all that registration nightmare. When you moved and re-registered, your old registration would automatically be deleted when you re-registered, preventing the tens of millions of double registrations in this country. In addition, all medical history etc would be correlated in one place that would be availabe to a physician when he or she needs to provide emergency medicine. Everyone has been complaining about multiple forms of ID, but with a national ID card, with a picture and fingerprint, you would only need one form of ID for everything. Most developed nations have national ID cards and it clears up all these problems and more. I had a national ID when I lived in Japan, and it was the only form of ID I ever had to show for anything I ever did. Every other resident and citizen had the same thing. You really can't see the problem of having multiple ID systems, with different requirements.

You're missing my point. I asked what the national ID card would get you that a driver's license does not. How many states do NOT currently have a picture on the face of the driver's license? Agreed that SS cards aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and that the voter registration is a mess. But you don't need a national ID card to require that a decedent's information be passed along to a national database, or even that we have a national emergency medical database. What is the level of differences among state driver license programs?

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
You're missing my point. I asked what the national ID card would get you that a driver's license does not. How many states do NOT currently have a picture on the face of the driver's license? Agreed that SS cards aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and that the voter registration is a mess. But you don't need a national ID card to require that a decedent's information be passed along to a national database, or even that we have a national emergency medical database. What is the level of differences among state driver license programs?

A drivers license is only for "Drivers". It is not an ID card but a "license". A national ID card would be your citizenship card. You would automatically have one. That way the US government could keep track of who is a citizen and who is not (And who getrs to vote). Driver's licenses are given to non-citizens. Legal alien residents need to be able to get driver's licenses. A drivers license is not the proper place for voter registration information, medical information etc. Are you really suggesting that when someone dies that that information be sent to the DMV and then the DMV notify everyone else, and that the DMV be the clearling house for all this information. And what about people that can't drive, or are not of driving age.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
You have a lot of faith in computers.

Anyone for a drink after work? Let's meet at Tech Noir.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Anyone for a drink after work? Let's meet at Tech Noir.

This is an inside Joke right? Or is this for real? - I got burned the last time someone suggested this.

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by Spanky
A drivers license is only for "Drivers". It is not an ID card but a "license". A national ID card would be your citizenship card. You would automatically have one. That way the US government could keep track of who is a citizen and who is not (And who getrs to vote). Driver's licenses are given to non-citizens. Legal alien residents need to be able to get driver's licenses. A drivers license is not the proper place for voter registration information, medical information etc. Are you really suggesting that when someone dies that that information be sent to the DMV and then the DMV notify everyone else, and that the DMV be the clearling house for all this information. And what about people that can't drive, or are not of driving age.

I have a lot of faith in the DMV.

Your chief concern seems to be verifying citizenship so as to reliably identify potential voters, and purge rolls of deceased voters and old addresses. For this, you don't need to get an ID card at birth. The only time I think you'd need an ID card for minors is to keep track of the juvenile delinquent's rap sheets. As for medical emergencies, I doubt there are all that many times a doctor pounds on the desk and cries, "Holy Mother of God, if only we had a national ID card so that I could have known that sweet child was allergic to mint julep-flavored lollipops!" I know you spend a lot of time thinking about voting-related issues, but that's not so high on my list.

I think there's something to be said for decentralization. What shape would the Japanese be in if a terrorist targeted their national ID card servers? Or if someone hacked into the system? Talk about identity theft.

But I have to admit the chief motivation for my position is that I'm fighting for Patty and Selma's jobs, dammit. Animated characters of the world, unite!

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
My sibling claims to be unable to find one of the worksheets for the AMT and, therefore, that the AMT is not understandable.

The AMT is not currently understandable, but that's because it's an alternative. Instead of just calculating it, you back out a bunch of deductions, etc. What a mess. But if calculating it straight up, it wouldn't be so bad.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
The AMT is not currently understandable, but that's because it's an alternative. Instead of just calculating it, you back out a bunch of deductions, etc. What a mess. But if calculating it straight up, it wouldn't be so bad.

Ah. Is it a flat tax, or does it have progressive rates?

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
But I have to admit the chief motivation for my position is that I'm fighting for Patty and Selma's jobs, dammit. Animated characters of the world, unite!

It took me a while to get that. Nice reference. Anyway, for all you milk toast wimpy non-necons, I was watching Richard Holbrook last night discuss Genocide. He admits that the biggest mistake of his tenure was not responding quickly enough to the Bosnian Genocide and not doing anything about Rwanda. So what panzy ass liberal, or self centered "only in American Interests" conservative is going to argue that we shouldn't send the Marines into Darfur right now. It is time to start our zero tolerance Genocide policy right now.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by Spanky
It took me a while to get that. Nice reference. Anyway, for all you milk toast wimpy non-necons, I was watching Richard Holbrook last night discuss Genocide. He admits that the biggest mistake of his tenure was not responding quickly enough to the Bosnian Genocide and not doing anything about Rwanda. So what panzy ass liberal, or self centered "only in American Interests" conservative is going to argue that we shouldn't send the Marines into Darfur right now. It is time to start our zero tolerance Genocide policy right now.

I had a joke to insert here about Barney Miller, but apparently I had Hal Holbrook and Hal Linden confused, so nevermind. Nothing to see here. Move along.

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by Spanky
It took me a while to get that. Nice reference. Anyway, for all you milk toast wimpy non-necons, I was watching Richard Holbrook last night discuss Genocide. He admits that the biggest mistake of his tenure was not responding quickly enough to the Bosnian Genocide and not doing anything about Rwanda. So what panzy ass liberal, or self centered "only in American Interests" conservative is going to argue that we shouldn't send the Marines into Darfur right now. It is time to start our zero tolerance Genocide policy right now.

Not this pansy ass liberal. Send 'em yesterday. When they're done, can we send them to Uganda to take on the Lord's Army? We'll save a hell of a lot of people that way.

I throw a lot of money at Doctors Without Borders, and in return I get more-than-occasional accounts of what is going on in sub-Sahara Africa generally. It's horrific - it really is. It is beyond comprehension why so many self-professed Christians whip themselves into a frenzy over a brain-dead Florida woman and can't spare a thought for scores of thousands in Africa dying from violence, AIDS, malaria, etc.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Ah. Is it a flat tax, or does it have progressive rates?

You're kidding, right?

But it's neither; mild progressivity both from rates and the standard deduction.

But how hard is it to calculate? Take AGI, take standard deduction, take mortgage and charity deductions. Multiply by .26 or .28. Done

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Spanky
It took me a while to get that. Nice reference. Anyway, for all you milk toast wimpy non-necons, I was watching Richard Holbrook last night discuss Genocide. He admits that the biggest mistake of his tenure was not responding quickly enough to the Bosnian Genocide and not doing anything about Rwanda. So what panzy ass liberal, or self centered "only in American Interests" conservative is going to argue that we shouldn't send the Marines into Darfur right now. It is time to start our zero tolerance Genocide policy right now.

It is sort of guache to forget "Lest we Forget."

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
It is beyond comprehension why so many self-professed Christians whip themselves into a frenzy over a brain-dead Florida woman and can't spare a thought for scores of thousands in Africa dying from violence, AIDS, malaria, etc.

To their credit, many self-professed Christians care more about what's happening in sub-Saharan Africa than most non-self-professed Christians.

And let me play devil's advocate here on Darfur, to some extent. I'm all for intervention if you think it can accomplish something, but what are you trying to do? Sudan is 2.5 million square kilometers -- eight times the size of Poland. If we had 100,000 troops to drop into the country, they could still get lost very quickly. What's their mission? Is there any reasonable prospect that we could bring law and order?

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
You're kidding, right?

But it's neither; mild progressivity both from rates and the standard deduction.

But how hard is it to calculate? Take AGI, take standard deduction, take mortgage and charity deductions. Multiply by .26 or .28. Done

Ah. Much more like a flat tax, though I'd call that progressive. I have not ever been affected by the AMT (I am so poor) and have only ever run through the worksheets. Ignorance, right over here, check it out.

Interestingly, the person who is on the committee thingy did not explain their flat-tax thingy this way to my AMT-hating sibling, even though some kind of mortgage/charity things were the things to keep, and what you describe sounds like what she described.

Can AMT affect anyone who does not itemize?

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
And let me play devil's advocate here on Darfur, to some extent. I'm all for intervention if you think it can accomplish something, but what are you trying to do? Sudan is 2.5 million square kilometers -- eight times the size of Poland. If we had 100,000 troops to drop into the country, they could still get lost very quickly. What's their mission? Is there any reasonable prospect that we could bring law and order?

Bull. Wiping out their air force and/or enforcing a no-fly zone (the Sudanese government has been bombing the villages) will require no US ground troops. And the Darfur region is not the entire country. The goal is not to impose law and order; it is to stop a lightly armed government approved and directed group -- supported by the government's air force -- from killing unarmed civilians.