Patting the wrists, rolling the eyes.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
That still does not change the fact that Chile now has the strongest economy in Latin America, and has the highest standard of living (maybe number 2) in South America. When the coup occured, Chile was close to the bottom, its standard of living was declining rapidly, there was massive inflation, and incredible capital flight from the country. Pinochet may have been a nasty dude, but the country has kept his economic policies in place making Chile the economic miracle of Latin America.

Well, hey, I guess all that torture was worth it then. The price of greatness. I'm sure the Chilean people would have elected Pinochet and his torturers instead of Allende had they only known how high their standard of living ultimately would rise.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Spanky
Pinochet may have been a nasty dude, but the country has kept his economic policies in place making Chile the economic miracle of Latin America.

And Mussolini made the trains run on time.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Well, hey, I guess all that torture was worth it then. The price of greatness. I'm sure the Chilean people would have elected Pinochet and his torturers instead of Allende had they only known how high their standard of living ultimately would rise.

Allende was elected President with only 36.6% of the vote. But anyway, he decided that was a mandate to turn Chile into a Socialist state. Inflation hit 1000% a year, the economy collapsed, and tax revenue dried up. Allende decided the only way to keep the government going was nationalizing the countrys industry. This was furthering deepening the crisis so he turned to the Soviet Block for Aid (which is exactly what happened to Cuba). Nixon was faced with the choice of potentially letting Chile turn into another Cuba or support the coup. He supported the Coup. Considering that Chile could have turned into another Cuba condemning the entire country to abject poverty for generations to come, I think the call was the right one. Nixon may have been a criminal, but when it came to foreign policy he knew exactly what he was doing. He had a much better grasp international politics and strategy than all of his political enemies.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Not Bob
And Mussolini made the trains run on time.

Mussolini was a socialist. What most liberals hate to admit (or don't understand) is that fascism and socialism are closely related cousins. Pinochet was no fascist. Hell the Nazi's even called themselves National Socialists. Allende had more in common with Mussolini than Pinochet did.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
Allende was elected President with only 36.6% of the vote. But anyway, he decided that was a mandate to turn Chile into a Socialist state. Inflation hit 1000% a year, the economy collapsed, and tax revenue dried up. Allende decided the only way to keep the government going was nationalizing the countrys industry. This was furthering deepening the crisis so he turned to the Soviet Block for Aid (which is exactly what happened to Cuba). Nixon was faced with the choice of potentially letting Chile turn into another Cuba or support the coup. He supported the Coup. Considering that Chile could have turned into another Cuba condemning the entire country to abject poverty for generations to come, I think the call was the right one. Nixon may have been a criminal, but when it came to foreign policy he knew exactly what he was doing. He had a much better grasp international politics and strategy than all of his political enemies.

In other words, we subverted the democratically elected government of another country because they were choosing the wrong economic policies, and helped install torturers whose dictatorial regime lasted for years.

We're all supposed to be pretending that the watchword for a conservative foreign policy is "democracy." Get with the program, Spanky.

As for Chile's strategic significance, it was Henry Kissinger who described Chile as a dagger pointed at the heart of Antartica.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
In other words, we subverted the democratically elected government of another country because they were choosing the wrong economic policies, and helped install torturers whose dictatorial regime lasted for years.

We're all supposed to be pretending that the watchword for a conservative foreign policy is "democracy." Get with the program, Spanky.

As for Chile's strategic significance, it was Henry Kissinger who described Chile as a dagger pointed at the heart of Antartica.

What you are failing to grasp is that free markets and democracy are intertwined. One doesn't last very long without the other. Countries that head down the socialist path end up becoming dictatorships because that is the only way they can survive. Cuba is a perfect example. Burma is another. Venezuela is a perfect modern example. Countrys with growing economies either stay democracies, or if they are not, turn into democracys. If you want a foreign policy that focuses on turning countrys into democracy's you need to focus on economics.

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by Spanky
Countrys with growing economies either stay democracies, or if they are not, turn into democracys. If you want a foreign policy that focuses on turning countrys into democracy's you need to focus on economics.

By that logic, the earlier we eliminate the Cuban embargo the better. Or alternately, the embargo has hindered the development of democracy in Cuba.

Good. I hear they got world-class beaches there.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
By that logic, the earlier we eliminate the Cuban embargo the better. Or alternately, the embargo has hindered the development of democracy in Cuba.

Good. I hear they got world-class beaches there.

I would agree with that. However, the best way to help Cuba would be regime change.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Spanky
I would agree with that. However, the best way to help Cuba would be regime change.

Why? Shouldn't Fidel just switch to free-markets?

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Ben desperately wants his life to have been about more than hawking Visine.

Please. Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

All of the deposed Nixon officials are coming out of the woodwork to tee off on him. Stein is no different. One might have hoped he was. For a guy who graduated first in his class from Yale Law School, and had a promising early career, he sure burned out.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Why? Shouldn't Fidel just switch to free-markets?

This is sarcam. Right? Actually, if he would switch to free markets I would have no problem with him staying. The problem is he is just too stupid and arrogant to see that history has proven his economic theories wrong. The Chinese figured they made a mistake and are now rectifying it. The Chinese are pretty much following Pinochet's model right now, although much more gradually. It is just too bad Castro can't see the obvious.

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Well, hey, I guess all that torture was worth it then. The price of greatness. I'm sure the Chilean people would have elected Pinochet and his torturers instead of Allende had they only known how high their standard of living ultimately would rise.

Send him to Cuba - he's a proven winner!

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Please. Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

All of the deposed Nixon officials are coming out of the woodwork to tee off on him. Stein is no different. One might have hoped he was. For a guy who graduated first in his class from Yale Law School, and had a promising early career, he sure burned out.

At a convention I was standing next to Bo Derek (she hadn't been able to get away from me yet) and Ben Stein came up and told her that the Republican Party had no place for people that were Pro-Choice. I told Ben Stein that I was not aware that he was Log Cabin Republican. He asked me why I thought he was a Log Cabin Republican, and I said because only a homosexual Republican would tell Bo Derek to leave the party. In no time I was standing all by myself sipping my cheap cocktail.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Spanky
What you are failing to grasp is that free markets and democracy are intertwined. One doesn't last very long without the other. Countries that head down the socialist path end up becoming dictatorships because that is the only way they can survive. Cuba is a perfect example. Burma is another. Venezuela is a perfect modern example. Countrys with growing economies either stay democracies, or if they are not, turn into democracys. If you want a foreign policy that focuses on turning countrys into democracy's you need to focus on economics.

And what you are failing to grasp is that IT IS NOT OKAY TO FUCKING KILL, TORTURE, AND TERRORIZE PEOPLE INTO A "DEMOCRACY."

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Spanky
At a convention I was standing next to Bo Derek (she hadn't been able to get away from me yet) and Ben Stein came up and told her that the Republican Party had no place for people that were Pro-Choice. I told Ben Stein that I was not aware that he was Log Cabin Republican. He asked me why I thought he was a Log Cabin Republican, and I said because only a homosexual Republican would tell Bo Derek to leave the party. In no time I was standing all by myself sipping my cheap cocktail.

Was this in the 80's?