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Old 12-07-2005, 06:08 PM   #1561
Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
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The Dems have hit on a strategy

Quote:
Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield


Here's what 99.999999 % of people want:

1. Decent govt, with a minimal social safety net;

2. Less wasteful pork (bridges to nowhere while stem cell research dies on the vine? WTF???);

3. Less govt interference in our lives (we're regulated to the point of insanity... every do-gooder dimwit thinks the govt can solve our problems by "passing a law" or "issuing a reg" - ENOUGH already);

4. Less taxes; and

5. Less stupid social/private issues like abortion hijakcing the more important debates on fiscal matters).
.
I think 99% is about 49 pct points high on 1, 3, 4, and 5. Little support for elimination of social safety net, plenty of people want more interference--that is, telling others how to behave. Less taxes, perhaps, but not if coupled with less spending on 1, and abortion--don't even start.
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Old 12-07-2005, 06:15 PM   #1562
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My crazy theory...

Quote:
Originally posted by Spanky
I differ with the Administration on many issues (they consider me a problem) but on the issue of taking out Saddam and building a democracy I totally concur.
You see, I think they are undermining chances of democracy by insisting on a single state. It will be easier for democracy to develop in more unified, single-ethnicity states.
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Old 12-07-2005, 06:28 PM   #1563
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The Dems have hit on a strategy

Quote:
Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
You been reading too much Chomsky, and listening to too many fellow travellers with cotton in their ears. Liberals - those seeking big govt and wealth redistribution - are deader than Gilligan.

Moderates are grumbling, and demaning a middle-of-the-road candidate. We're all sick of stupid goddamned fiscal liberals wasting money and stupid goddamned alleged republicans who spend like idiot fiscal liberals doing the same.

Here's what 99.999999 % of people want:

1. Decent govt, with a minimal social safety net;

2. Less wasteful pork (bridges to nowhere while stem cell research dies on the vine? WTF???);

3. Less govt interference in our lives (we're regulated to the point of insanity... every do-gooder dimwit thinks the govt can solve our problems by "passing a law" or "issuing a reg" - ENOUGH already);

4. Less taxes; and

5. Less stupid social/private issues like abortion hijakcing the more important debates on fiscal matters).

I see a nation sick of idiots on the far left and right bickering about nonsense, gridlocking all the imprtant businss we have to do. We don't have the luxury anymore of debating nonsense like abortion, or listening to douchebags crying for more social welfare programs. Liberals and Arch-Conservatives have blown their wads. They're done, soon.
Lots of people might agree in theory but not in practice.

For example, I'd love less regulation, but understand that in the wake of a series of corporate scandals, Congress had to do something - and so Sarbanes-Oxley was born, with widespread popular support. I was talking the other day with European counsel, who told me there will be very few European countries seeking listing on US exchanges in the future because of Sarbox, so the regulation is having an economic downside for us.

My proposal, unabashedly based on Gramm-Rudman: for every new regulatory scheme put in place, Congress should have to eliminate one old scheme. Just so we keep trimming the deadwood as we address the issue du jour.
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Old 12-07-2005, 06:35 PM   #1564
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Quote:
Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
You should listen to the interview. I think you'd find yourself agreeing with him. He mentioned the former Yukoslavia and the Soviet Union a lot in his discussion, and he was hopeful that the transition was going to be more in line with what happened to the old USSR.
I heard that interview too, and was reminded of it with this discussion. I think the guy was the former US Ambassador to Yugoslavia, saw how things went down there, and has been involved on the ground in Iraq in some capacity. Interesting stuff.
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Old 12-07-2005, 06:57 PM   #1565
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The Dems have hit on a strategy

Quote:
Originally posted by Not Bob
Club, what were you smoking from 1992 to 2000? The media beat the shit out of Clinton repeatedly. Whitewater was a NYT expose that they chased from New Hampshire through the end of his presidency. Maureen Dowd's Clinton-bashing columns won her a Pulitzer. "Wag the Dog" accusations when he bombed Iraq and sent cruise missiles into the Sudan and Afghanistan.

He had horrible press -- sometimes deservedly so, of course.
The better question is what wasn't I smoking, at least through 1997.
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Old 12-07-2005, 07:17 PM   #1566
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The Dems have hit on a strategy

Quote:
Originally posted by sgtclub
The better question is what wasn't I smoking, at least through 1997.
If this refers to your contention that Clinton got a free ride from the press prior to 1997, I'd respond with Whitewater, Whitewater, and Whitewater (seriously -- the NYT started pounding him on it in 1992 before he even won the nomination). Oh, plus Somalia, gays in the military, Hillary and health care reform, and the flip/flop on the middle class tax cut promised in the campaign.

Oh, and the whole "I am Not Irrelevant" pout after the 1994 elections.
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Old 12-07-2005, 07:39 PM   #1567
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The Dems have hit on a strategy

Quote:
Originally posted by Not Bob
If this refers to your contention that Clinton got a free ride from the press prior to 1997, I'd respond with Whitewater, Whitewater, and Whitewater (seriously -- the NYT started pounding him on it in 1992 before he even won the nomination). Oh, plus Somalia, gays in the military, Hillary and health care reform, and the flip/flop on the middle class tax cut promised in the campaign.

Oh, and the whole "I am Not Irrelevant" pout after the 1994 elections.
Um, I'm thinking that club meant he was smoking everything.

"Smoking? What WASN'T I smoking?"
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:09 PM   #1568
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Government is not the solution it is the problem.

Quote:
Originally posted by Captain
However, I worry that there is much to fear from government involvement, and particularly so in the media, and I also believe the media is different because of the first amendment. Media is a place where it is particularly dangerous for government to go.
Maybe the Captain will have the conversation with me. I quite agree, and it seems to me that it's one of the problems with the CPB. Karl Rove figured out a way to install Tomlinson and other political hacks. And they're always worrying about their budget, resulting in political pressure. Hence my proposal to try to get fiscal independence and consensus directors.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:13 PM   #1569
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What to do

Quote:
Originally posted by Captain
Turkey is going to have to get over Kurds having power in Iraq.
How long have cons been saying that the Sunnis are going to have to get over losing their power in Iraq? 'Cause that hasn't been working so well.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:14 PM   #1570
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Quote:
Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
There was a guy on NPR yesterday who said a lot of the same things that Cap'n said. He is a former ambassador to Croatia and has been advising the Kurds to some extent.
Galbraith also writes about Iraq fairly regularly for the New York Review of Books.

eta: Here is the last piece he wrote there, I think, from early October.
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Last edited by Tyrone Slothrop; 12-07-2005 at 09:53 PM..
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Old 12-08-2005, 08:43 AM   #1571
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
How long have cons been saying that the Sunnis are going to have to get over losing their power in Iraq? 'Cause that hasn't been working so well.
I think there is a big difference between saying that Turkey needs to accept that the Kurds have a voice and saying that the Sunnis must accept being silenced. Everyone should have a voice. So I do not think the analogy is useful.
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Old 12-08-2005, 08:50 AM   #1572
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Government is not the solution it is the problem.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Maybe the Captain will have the conversation with me. I quite agree, and it seems to me that it's one of the problems with the CPB. Karl Rove figured out a way to install Tomlinson and other political hacks. And they're always worrying about their budget, resulting in political pressure. Hence my proposal to try to get fiscal independence and consensus directors.
I am going to admit that I wasn't up to speed on what you were talking about with Dr. Spanks and was merely reacting to his post.

CPB in my mind is a potential first amendment danger to the extent the government can assert some level of control over a major media outlet. I would put the Voice of America in the same camp, though traditionally CPB has had a liberal leaning and VoA has had a conservative leaning.

At the same time, I think CPB has added a lot to public discussion (and has te best kids television on television, too - and disenchantment with violent kids show is I think something both the left and right will often agree on, Tinky Winky aside). So I would like to see a way to insulate CPB. Maybe you could link back to your proposal or briefly summarize it, as I couldn't find it quickly and do not know what to search on.

Run properly, CPB ought to be functioning like institutions of higher learning that rely on government funding, which still have considerable independence.
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Old 12-08-2005, 09:08 AM   #1573
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What to do

Quote:
Originally posted by taxwonk
One lesson that can be drawn is that the unleashing of ethnic tensions is greatly exacerbated by the intervention and subsequent withdrawal of foreign influences.

The Muslims. Sephardic jews, and Arab Christians lived in relative peace alongside each other for close to 500 years before Britain and France began their colonial adventures there. Has there been a single day of peace since they left?
That is because the outside intervention, for good or ill, destroys or alters the existing power structure and patterns of interaction.

Depending on the nature of the intervention, the outside force either imposes a new structure (Balkans 1990s) or leaves it to the natives to work out a new system. The Brits tried to do the former in Palestine pre-WWII, but were never completely successful. The intervention of WWII and the resulting formation of Israel left the locals to work out a new system (with the added bonus of outside tampering). They have been "negotiating" the new structure of relationships for the past sixty years.

In Iraq, it seems to me that we have made some stabs at the former (i.e. we have in many ways imposed certain guidelines at least and enforced a new power structure) -- but given that our presence is inherently temporary, it will end up being the latter.

I would be surprised if a unified Iraq emerged and lasted, say, 30 years. I think it likely that the ethnic, religious, and resource divisions are too strong.

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Old 12-08-2005, 09:16 AM   #1574
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My uninformed Opinion........

Quote:
Originally posted by Spanky
The big issues is when they break if the rest of Iraq will let them go. My guess is they will because Iraqi Kurdistan has been operating as a separate country since 1991.

* * *

So my prediction - there will be a Kurdistan and then the rest of Iraq will stay together and there will be Sunni insurgency for many years in the remaining but eventually it will run out of steam.
The presence of the oilfields in the North Central portion of Iraq complicates the analysis.

The Kirkuk area used to be Kurdish, was resettled with Sunni Arabs by Saddam, and the Kurds are now flooding back in droves.

The Kurds want that oil, and the Arabs don't want to give it up. That -- and the likelihood of serious bloodshed in the civil war -- may keep a loosely unified Iraq within some kind of federal or confederal structure.

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Last edited by Secret_Agent_Man; 12-08-2005 at 02:38 PM..
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Old 12-08-2005, 10:01 AM   #1575
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There is No Joy In Podunkville, For The Mighty Not Bob Has Struck Out.

Quote:
Originally posted by Gattigap
Um, I'm thinking that club meant he was smoking everything.

"Smoking? What WASN'T I smoking?"
Oh. Uh, sorry, Club.
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