All Hank, all the time.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by ironweed
Too true. This is the same sort of contemptible double-crossing bullshit that was pulled in WWII when the Germans left Normandy and the Allies used it for a base to keep pushing all the way to Berlin. I can't stand it when people don't fight fair.

ummmm, wonk said Israel wants continued war- you don't think leaving Gaza was sort of, you know, evidence against that? what type law do you practice again- does it involve proving stuff?

oh, and nice "equate israel with the Nazis" reference. I do hope Wonk and the more thoughtful chastise you, at least on PM.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
oh. it's like when you guys make up tax structures for hypothetical countries- I see- you don't need any tie to reality.

Because in the real world Israel left Gaza a little bit ago and your freedom fighters used the vantage point to kidnap a soldier and attack Israel.

To begin with, they aren't my freedom fighters, motherfucker. No need to be a bigger asshole than necessary, Hank.

Secondly, Israel has not left all of Gaza. Even the parts where the territory has been turned over to the Palestinian Authority is ringed by Iraeli troops who regularly use their position to attack the residents of the Arab settlements.

In the third place, Israel left Lebanon in the 80's but it continued to conduct bombing runs over lebanese airspace, generally limiting its attacks to terrorist camps. Yesterday, Israel intentionally bombed civilians and non terrorist targets.

That's not hypothetical.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
hmmm. maybe it's just a generic term for grilled meat- although its pretty universal here- it's not like yours- and lamb is as popular as chicken. I don't think it's cooked on a big skewer like gyros.

Generally (always actually) it's served as a sliced marinated and grilled meat- it is dry and with hummous (shwarma plate) or atop a salad or in a sandwich- pita wrapped around lettuce pickles and the meat.

That's what I thought. Basically, I've been getting screwed. Oh well, at least the kibbe and kefta are authentic.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
ummmm, wonk said Israel wants continued war- you don't think leaving Gaza was sort of, you know, evidence against that? what type law do you practice again- does it involve proving stuff?

oh, and nice "equate israel with the Nazis" reference. I do hope Wonk and the more thoughtful chastise you, at least on PM.

It would have been more convincing evidence if: (i) the military hadn't had to forceably remove a large number of the population that pulled back; (ii) Israel hadn't started walling off the Gaza; and (iii) they didn't continually go in after terrorists with little concern for collateral damage.

I agree that the WWII argument was overstated. Perhaps a more apt analogy was the Afrikaans "pullout" from Soweto in the 80's.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
yes. that and that much of the world equates the 3 actors.

Really? Is there anyone in the world who equates the three actors?

eta: Other than wonk, that is.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by taxwonk
It would have been more convincing evidence if: (i) the military hadn't had to forceably remove a large number of the population that pulled back;

you don't see that as an expression that the Israeli people want it to end? honestly, that they dragged them out is some of the strongest evidence that the people generally want peace.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
you don't see that as an expression that the Israeli people want it to end? honestly, that they dragged them out is some of the strongest evidence that the people generally want peace.

Everybody generally wants peace. But on what terms?

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
hmmm. maybe it's just a generic term for grilled meat- although its pretty universal here- it's not like yours- and lamb is as popular as chicken. I don't think it's cooked on a big skewer like gyros.

Generally (always actually) it's served as a sliced marinated and grilled meat- it is dry and with hummous (shwarma plate) or atop a salad or in a sandwich- pita wrapped around lettuce pickles and the meat.

The shawerma I had in chicago did seem to have been grilled/sliced like off the big gyros thing, only it wasn't ground up ever so thin slices seemed like they might have been shredded because chicken has a grain. I'm pretty sure it was marinated, and sumac and onions were put on top or mixed in after it was sliced off the grill-y thingy.

Maybe I will go to the place down the street and try theirs tonight and see what it involves. I think it didn't appeal to me much, but now it's in the cause of, uh, science or whatever.

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
ummmm, wonk said Israel wants continued war- you don't think leaving Gaza was sort of, you know, evidence against that? what type law do you practice again- does it involve proving stuff?

oh, and nice "equate israel with the Nazis" reference. I do hope Wonk and the more thoughtful chastise you, at least on PM.

Nobody wants "continued war," dimwit. People want land they think is theirs. But Israel also needs to preserve a Jewish-majority state, which is why they can't incorporate Gaza and the West Bank (with their current populations). They left Gaza because the price of staying was too high, not out of the goodness of Ariel Sharon's heart.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson sued Scooter Libby, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, and a bunch of Does today in federal court in Washington, D.C. Plame and Wilson are represented by Proskauer Rose. Here is the complaint. According to TPMmuckraker,

• [t]he complaint details eight causes of action, all surrounding the trio's involvement in outing Valerie Wilson as a CIA agent:
  
  1) Violation of First Amendment Right to Freedom of Speech - because the First Amendment "prohibits government officials from subjecting any individual to retaliatory action in reprisal for the exercise of the right to speech."
  
  2) Violation of Fifth Amendment Right to Equal Protection of the Laws - because the Equal Protection Clause of the Fifth Amendment "prohibits government officials from intentionally subjecting any individual to treatment that is different from that accorded to others similarly situated and is without legitimate basis." In other words, they singled the Wilsons out for a smear job.
  
  3) Violation of Fifth Amendment Right to Privacy - because the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment "prohibits government officials from violating any individual's right to privacy by publicly disclosing personal information."
  
  4) Violation of Fifth Amendment Right to Property - because the Due Process Clause "prohibits government officials from depriving any individual of a property interest in employment without due process."
  
  5) Conspiracy to Deprive Persons of Their Civil Rights - because Rove, Cheney and Libby conspired to deprive the Wilsons of their civil rights (as described in 1-4).
  
  6) Action for Neglect to Prevent Civil Rights Violation - because Rove, Cheney, and Libby could have stopped the smearing of the Wilsons, but didn't, and then lied to investigators and the federal grand jury about their role in the leak.
  
  7) Public Disclosure of Private Facts - because "The Defendants caused widespread publication of a private fact... in a manner that would be deemed outrageous and highly offensive to a reasonable person of ordinary sensibilites."
  
  8) Civil Conspiracy.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Everybody generally wants peace. But on what terms?

right- and the Palis terms are "peace because all the Jews in the area are dead." it kinda makes it hard to work through-

stated more nicely- Israel stood up to its extremists and gave back Gaza- and the brave Pali resposne is............

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
The shawerma

you should spell it like i spell it- I'm the one living in the Arab capitol of the US.

I had in chicago did seem to have been grilled/sliced like off the big gyros thing, only it wasn't ground up ever so thin slices seemed like they might have been shredded because chicken has a grain. I'm pretty sure it was marinated, and sumac and onions were put on top or mixed in after it was sliced off the grill-y thingy.

Maybe I will go to the place down the street and try theirs tonight and see what it involves. I think it didn't appeal to me much, but now it's in the cause of, uh, science or whatever.

you need to plan a flight to have a layover in Detroit- you can get a real one at the airport- or I'll bring one to you if you meet me at security.

[andViolins]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
right- and the Palis terms are "peace because all the Jews in the area are dead." it kinda makes it hard to work through-

stated more nicely- Israel stood up to its extremists and gave back Gaza- and the brave Pali resposne is............

Well, to be fair to the Palestinians, they don't necessarily want all the Jews dead. When Israel is pushed into the sea, the Jews who are able to swim somewhere else are gonna be a-ok.

aV

[Aloha Mr. Learned Hand]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson sued Scooter Libby, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, and a bunch of Does today in federal court in Washington, D.C. Plame and Wilson are represented by Proskauer Rose. Here is the complaint. According to TPMmuckraker,

• [t]he complaint details eight causes of action, all surrounding the trio's involvement in outing Valerie Wilson as a CIA agent:
  
  1) Violation of First Amendment Right to Freedom of Speech - because the First Amendment "prohibits government officials from subjecting any individual to retaliatory action in reprisal for the exercise of the right to speech."
  
  2) Violation of Fifth Amendment Right to Equal Protection of the Laws - because the Equal Protection Clause of the Fifth Amendment "prohibits government officials from intentionally subjecting any individual to treatment that is different from that accorded to others similarly situated and is without legitimate basis." In other words, they singled the Wilsons out for a smear job.
  
  3) Violation of Fifth Amendment Right to Privacy - because the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment "prohibits government officials from violating any individual's right to privacy by publicly disclosing personal information."
  
  4) Violation of Fifth Amendment Right to Property - because the Due Process Clause "prohibits government officials from depriving any individual of a property interest in employment without due process."
  
  5) Conspiracy to Deprive Persons of Their Civil Rights - because Rove, Cheney and Libby conspired to deprive the Wilsons of their civil rights (as described in 1-4).
  
  6) Action for Neglect to Prevent Civil Rights Violation - because Rove, Cheney, and Libby could have stopped the smearing of the Wilsons, but didn't, and then lied to investigators and the federal grand jury about their role in the leak.
  
  7) Public Disclosure of Private Facts - because "The Defendants caused widespread publication of a private fact... in a manner that would be deemed outrageous and highly offensive to a reasonable person of ordinary sensibilites."
  
  8) Civil Conspiracy.

Honestly, I say a pox on all their houses. Two miserable people suing other miserable people. For someone who made a career in secrecy she sure loves the public eye now.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Aloha Mr. Learned Hand
Honestly, I say a pox on all their houses. Two miserable people suing other miserable people. For someone who made a career in secrecy she sure loves the public eye now.

Yeah, it's hard not to say that. I'm exhausted from listening to this story, and part of me hopes that all involved will spend themselves into penury on their lawyers.