Posting Towards Gomorrah

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Glad you could find one quote from the leading Jurist of the Age to please you.

Next week, can you get us your fav from Blackstone? If your feeling frisky, how 'bout Justinian

I wonder what your purpose is here.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I really don't get this. revenues mean what? little kids would assume a school should be whatever their school is- poor facilities they wouldn't know. If the school has textbooks, even old ones, shouldn't those be useable? Math and science and english haven't changed much- there could be a handout with all the proof on global warming. and I don't mean schools shouldn't be better funded, I just don't see how revenues possibly explain the horrible reality of our schools.

Schools are fucked up because teachers are allowed to be substandard. Democrats play politics with the issue while another generation of poor kids is doomed to producing the next.

It is criminal. We broke the air traffic controllers union, we should outlaw unions for teachers other than negotiation of contracts.

Would it not be reasonable to say that it is also possible that schools are lousy because parents allow them to be? If you look at the example of the Chicago Public Schools, a system that is far from ideal, there is a solid track record of improvement since the system introduced parent councils and started making schools somewhat more accountable to parents.

It isn't really a Democrat or Republican issue. In most jurisdictions, school boards are nonpartisan.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I will repeat what the libertarian on the bus told me: If you want to fix the schools, you need to stick it to the teachers to take away their freedom to teach whatever the hell they want and you need to fix the curriculum. You need to fix the curriculum so that the teachers are all teaching the same things, and so that it's the right things. To do this, you need to spend a lot of money to buy new books.

He said that trying to set standards to get rid of teachers is a lost cause because (a) no one is in the classrooms watching them, (b) it's very hard to tell from tests whether the teachers are doing well or they just started with good/bad kids, and (c) it's not like the administrators rating them are rocket scientists either.

I don't know enough about the subject to say whether any of this is right, but it sounded right, and "a pox on both houses" was not what I expected this fellow to say. I had been watching him try to get other people on the bus to take his copies of the National Review and obscure libertarian tracts for several months.

etfs

See my immediate prior post. That's the problem in a nutshell. Since we moved to our new house, along with many a large number of other committed parents in the new developments, test scores and reading and math levels in the schools have gone up dramatically. And it's not just our kids coming in doing better than the people who have been here all along. It's mothers and fathers in the classrooms three to five days a week, helping out, and making sure that the teachers are doing the job, that has improved all the test scores.

I'm not a huge fan of Hilary, but she did get one thing right: it takes a village. DISCLAIMER: That is simply her quoting an old maxim.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Kennedy males themselves die in about 50% of the drownings-

Is that the median?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
BTW, how ridiculous is it that someone claiming to be a centrist is so combative about the use of medians?

wp,p

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by taxwonk
See my immediate prior post. That's the problem in a nutshell. Since we moved to our new house, along with many a large number of other committed parents in the new developments, test scores and reading and math levels in the schools have gone up dramatically. And it's not just our kids coming in doing better than the people who have been here all along. It's mothers and fathers in the classrooms three to five days a week, helping out, and making sure that the teachers are doing the job, that has improved all the test scores.

I'm not a huge fan of Hilary, but she did get one thing right: it takes a village. DISCLAIMER: That is simply her quoting an old maxim.

I'm in favor of parent involvement and I think it is a necessary condition to improve schools. But who the hell has time to spend during the day in the classroom? Maybe upper-middle class families can afford one parent to do that 1 day a week, but this really isn't an option in the middle/lower class because both parents (if they are in the home) need to work during the day.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I'm in favor of parent involvement and I think it is a necessary condition to improve schools. But who the hell has time to spend during the day in the classroom? Maybe upper-middle class families can afford one parent to do that 1 day a week, but this really isn't an option in the middle/lower class because both parents (if they are in the home) need to work during the day.

wonk is right. you don't need all 25 kids to have a parent there, you just need to get some parents, but a problem with the worst schools here is that the kids who attend are probably from a parent that attended a bad school too. It might be tough for them to know what to insist on?

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Spanky
And so far I have heard a lot of screaming but nothing that substantive. Lincoln threw US citizens (not even ones that were rebellion) into jail without a trial. So did Wilson and Roosevelt. What has Bush done to a US citizen that even comes close to this?

* * *

What is the horrific transgression on our rights that has occurred in the name of National Security?

Spanky, sometimes I can't believe the stuff that comes out of your mouth. You really haven't been paying attention, have you?

"Lincoln threw US citizens . . . l. So did Wilson and Roosevelt. What has Bush done to a US citizen that even comes close to this?"

Bush did exactly that -- to American named Hamdi and Padilla -- and he had his DOJ argue vociferously every step of the way through the Courts for the right to do exactly that to American citizens in the name of national security. Indefinite detention. No trial required. No access to counsel needed b/c no charges filed. No judicial review of any kind.

Bush made all of those arguments -- and it took three+ years fro him to lose on all of them.

So, even concentrating on this as the sole infringement on civil liberties -- there is your answer.

S_A_M

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by taxwonk
I wonder what your purpose is here.

To mock you and avoid discussing the point.

S_A_M

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Spanky, sometimes I can't believe the stuff that comes out of your mouth. You really haven't been paying attention, have you?

"Lincoln threw US citizens . . . l. So did Wilson and Roosevelt. What has Bush done to a US citizen that even comes close to this?"

Bush did exactly that -- to American named Hamdi and Padilla -- and he had his DOJ argue vociferously every step of the way through the Courts for the right to do exactly that to American citizens in the name of national security. Indefinite detention. No trial required. No access to counsel needed b/c no charges filed. No judicial review of any kind.

Bush made all of those arguments -- and it took three+ years fro him to lose on all of them.

So, even concentrating on this as the sole infringement on civil liberties -- there is your answer.

S_A_M

Once you join an army that is taking arms against the United States don't you immediately lose your citizenship. I am pretty sure it says that in my passport. In fact once you join a military organization without US approval, I think it is game over. We don't even have to be at war with them. If that isnt' the rule it should be. When Germans joined the German army during WWII wasn't that it? One of these guys had joined Al Queda and the other one was fighting with the Taliban.

Its not like these guys were in San Franicsco speaking against the war. One had a gun and was shooting at American soliders on foreign soil and the other went to foreign countrys to collaberate with an organization that had declared war on the US.

I can't believe Hamdi still has US citizenship. As for Padilla it is a little tougher because Al Queda is not a foreign nation, but it might as well be. But that is a far cry from locking people up just for demonstrating against the war (as happened in the Civil War, WWI and WWII). Hell, in WWII, they didn't even demostrate, they were thrown in jail just for their ethnicity.

These two cases certainly don't make me lose any sleep at night.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Spanky, sometimes I can't believe the stuff that comes out of your mouth. You really haven't been paying attention, have you?

I have to admit I have been a little preoccupied. First of all I met this girl from Belgrade , and well there are these little kids and deer that are constantly invading my yard, and....well, .....it has been a little hectic.....and.....

[Spanky]

Originally posted by taxwonk
It isn't really a Democrat or Republican issue. In most jurisdictions, school boards are nonpartisan.

If that were only true in California. On one side you have the CTA (with the help of the Democrats) putting money into school board elections whose only concern is holding on to tenure and social promotion, and on the other hand, you have fundamentalists (with the help of Republicans) whose sole goal is to end all reference to evolution and stop sex education.

I mostly deal with the battles in the rural areas (which are battles with in the GOP) but I have friends that deal with the battle in the big cities (which is just battles with in the Democrat party) and all they complain about is the teachers unions.

The school board elections are less glamorous, but that is where the real contest for the future of the nation is being held.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I'm in favor of parent involvement and I think it is a necessary condition to improve schools. But who the hell has time to spend during the day in the classroom? Maybe upper-middle class families can afford one parent to do that 1 day a week, but this really isn't an option in the middle/lower class because both parents (if they are in the home) need to work during the day.

That's why I liked the idea of the local parent councils in the Chicago System. Each of the schools was made accountable to a local council made up of parents and system officials. If the schools didn't meet certain objectives, the councils had the right to replace officials and, to a certain extent, teachers, after allowing the teachers to attempt to meet a performance improvement plan.

The program has been modified or abandoned somewhat, but it was a great move and it should be reinstitutued and beefed up.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
wonk is right. you don't need all 25 kids to have a parent there, you just need to get some parents, but a problem with the worst schools here is that the kids who attend are probably from a parent that attended a bad school too. It might be tough for them to know what to insist on?

Yes and no. A parent who can't do geometry may not be able to articulate what the teacher needs to focus on. But any parent can figure out when the kids aren't getting a concept and insist that the teacher find alternative methods for getting the lesson across.

Also, a parent can help ensure that the teacher can actually focus on educationg, instead of trying to face down the kids who spend the whole class intimidating teachers and students.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
To mock you and avoid discussing the point.

S_A_M

We don't really need to make anybody believe Slave's still fucking Paigow. It's enough to make the son of a bitch deny it.