Posting Towards Gomorrah

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Like most of these "tenured' teachers have a clue.

I'd fire everyone, torch all the schools and sell the property off to the highest bidders, dramatically cut taxes and make education a private concern.

I'd ban private schools and make everyone go to public schools. (Not in real life, but in my wildly unconstitutional thought experiment.) If everyone had to send their kids to public schools, they'd get a lot better.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'd ban private schools and make everyone go to public schools. (Not in real life, but in my wildly unconstitutional thought experiment.) If everyone had to sent their kids to public schools, they'd get a lot better.

How about something a little less drastic:

1) Requiring all schools to spend a least 70% of the education budget on classroom activity.

2) Make the maximum class size twenty students

3) Test every student in the system at the end of the year with a standardized test.

4) Make these standardized tests comphresnsive and sophisticated enough so that in order to teach for the test, you will have to teach the subject.

5) You don't proceed past a certain grade level unless you achieve a certain score.

6) Stats on every teacher are compiled. Teachers that do a good job of teaching students (test scores are higher at the end of the year than they were at the beginning of the year) get bonuses.

7) No tenure ever. Teachers whose students get worse are fired.

8) Principles whose schools consistently teach students get bonuses. Principles whose schools consistenlty perform poorly get fired.

9) No public funds can be used for lobbying and membership in the teacher's union is voluntary.

Doesn't seem that complicated to me.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by Spanky
How about something a little less drastic:

1) Requiring all schools to spend a least 70% of the education budget on classroom activity.

2) Make the maximum class size twenty students

3) Test every student in the system at the end of the year with a standardized test.

4) Make these standardized tests comphresnsive and sophisticated enough so that in order to teach for the test, you will have to teach the subject.

I'm with you so far, although I think the last one is impossible for many subjects, and/or ends up emphasizing tested/testable subjects over untested ones.

5) You don't proceed past a certain grade level unless you achieve a certain score.

Not going to happen in our lifetime.

6) Stats on every teacher are compiled. Teachers that do a good job of teaching students (test scores are higher at the end of the year than they were at the beginning of the year) get bonuses.

7) No tenure ever. Teachers whose students get worse are fired.

Both of these need to be limited somewhat to account for the fact that 20 students (even 30) is too small a sample size. Also, desruction of tenure needs to be limited to this cause. Maybe a better answer is extending the tenure decision to more like university-like levels - 6 to 8 years.

8) Principles whose schools consistently teach students get bonuses. Principles whose schools consistenlty perform poorly get fired.

I'm good with this, but we have to make sure we are paying enough to make it attractive to new candidates - same with the teachers. It's all well and good to talk about firing people for incompetence, but it is much harder to acheive in an environment where there is already a labor shortage. I'm sure availability of teachers varies wildly by subject and region.

9) No public funds can be used for lobbying and membership in the teacher's union is voluntary.

Doesn't seem that complicated to me.

No on the no public funds, but the second doesn't seem unreasonable, to me at least. The no public funds is problematic because frankly, who else is going to lobby for strong schools than educators (distinct from your hated union)?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Like most of these "tenured' teachers have a clue.

I'd fire everyone, torch all the schools and sell the property off to the highest bidders, dramatically cut taxes and make education a private concern.

But then, you'd also roast the kids over an open fire if it cut down on your taxes.

Spanky is planning to spend a lot of your tax money getting class sizes down. Maybe you'll want to roast him over an open fire first.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Spanky
How about something a little less drastic:

1) Requiring all schools to spend a least 70% of the education budget on classroom activity.

2) Make the maximum class size twenty students

3) Test every student in the system at the end of the year with a standardized test.

4) Make these standardized tests comphresnsive and sophisticated enough so that in order to teach for the test, you will have to teach the subject.

5) You don't proceed past a certain grade level unless you achieve a certain score.

6) Stats on every teacher are compiled. Teachers that do a good job of teaching students (test scores are higher at the end of the year than they were at the beginning of the year) get bonuses.

7) No tenure ever. Teachers whose students get worse are fired.

8) Principles whose schools consistently teach students get bonuses. Principles whose schools consistenlty perform poorly get fired.

9) No public funds can be used for lobbying and membership in the teacher's union is voluntary.

Doesn't seem that complicated to me.

I suspect that if you could actually come up with the funds to get class sizes down below 20, you'd be able to get many of the remaining points (though I don't think you'll completely revise the country's labor laws and the union certification process, but other than that...)

But after NCLB, with Bush putting his funding requests at about 60% of the amount he baked into law in NCLB, why should anyone trust a Republican funding plan? However well intentioned, NCLB has become the poster-child for unfunded mandates.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

So, the polls show Webb moving ahead of Allen now -- http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/ -- so what happened to the planned collapse after Allen's little demonstration that he has at least one staff person who can read?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Did you gradutate from a public school in California?

I did. K-3 and 5-12. Explains a lot, doesn't it.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Spanky
How about something a little less drastic:

1) Requiring all schools to spend a least 70% of the education budget on classroom activity.

2) Make the maximum class size twenty students

3) Test every student in the system at the end of the year with a standardized test.

4) Make these standardized tests comphresnsive and sophisticated enough so that in order to teach for the test, you will have to teach the subject.

5) You don't proceed past a certain grade level unless you achieve a certain score.

6) Stats on every teacher are compiled. Teachers that do a good job of teaching students (test scores are higher at the end of the year than they were at the beginning of the year) get bonuses.

7) No tenure ever. Teachers whose students get worse are fired.

8) Principles whose schools consistently teach students get bonuses. Principles whose schools consistenlty perform poorly get fired.

9) No public funds can be used for lobbying and membership in the teacher's union is voluntary.

Doesn't seem that complicated to me.

Add this to (5): And if you don't get that score, you immediately proceed into remedial classes for the summer, and get special tutoring during the year. We don't just throw you back into the class that failed to teach you anything last year.

At that point, I'm fine with this (in theory -- the devil is in the details, etc.)

[Sidd Finch]

Looks like our ally Blair has joined the Vast Worldwide Conspiracy To Lie About Global Warming.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/wo...=1&oref=slogin


I assume his next move will be to commit traitorous acts and support terrorism. It's the Bilmore Continuum.

[SlaveNoMore]

by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
So, the polls show Webb moving ahead of Allen now -- http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/ -- so what happened to the planned collapse after Allen's little demonstration that he has at least one staff person who can read?

Won't happen.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Won't happen.

OK, I'm game. Why?

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Gattigap
OK, I'm game. Why?

Throbbing members? (or whatever it was he wrote in his novel...)

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'd ban private schools and make everyone go to public schools. (Not in real life, but in my wildly unconstitutional thought experiment.) If everyone had to send their kids to public schools, they'd get a lot better.

I did both, and I must admit - I learned a hell of a lot more in public than private school. I also did a brief stint in Catholic school. That's an offensive joke. Those things should be fucking closed. They actually work toward making your kid ignorant.

I agree with Spanky. They should make teachers accountable on a bonus system. A good teacher ought to be paid a shitload; the sort who hide in the job to get maximum benefits without stress should be fired. I can think no person more appalling than one who'd waste children's formative years phoning in a job because he's too fucking lazy, gutless and creative to make it in the private sector.

Everybopdy, in every job, should be reviewed yearly and compensated based on production. Why any sector of our society - govt or private - escapes that necessary weeding process is beyond me. How the hell else shall we evolve? I have to fight for money every day. Make the goddamned state employees and teachers do the same. If they can't make it, good. More money for everyone who can.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I did both, and I must admit - I learned a hell of a lot more in public than private school. I also did a brief stint in Catholic school. That's an offensive joke. Those things should be fucking closed. They actually work toward making your kid ignorant.

I agree with Spanky. They should make teachers accountable on a bonus system. A good teacher ought to be paid a shitload; the sort who hide in the job to get maximum benefits without stress should be fired. I can think no person more appalling than one who'd waste children's formative years phoning in a job because he's too fucking lazy, gutless and creative to make it in the private sector.

Everybopdy, in every job, should be reviewed yearly and compensated based on production. Why any sector of our society - govt or private - escapes that necessary weeding process is beyond me. How the hell else shall we evolve? I have to fight for money every day. Make the goddamned state employees and teachers do the same. If they can't make it, good. More money for everyone who can.

Yeah, I've never met a GA who just marks time and collects his salary.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I did both, and I must admit - I learned a hell of a lot more in public than private school. I also did a brief stint in Catholic school. That's an offensive joke. Those things should be fucking closed. They actually work toward making your kid ignorant.

I agree with Spanky. They should make teachers accountable on a bonus system. A good teacher ought to be paid a shitload; the sort who hide in the job to get maximum benefits without stress should be fired. I can think no person more appalling than one who'd waste children's formative years phoning in a job because he's too fucking lazy, gutless and creative to make it in the private sector.

Everybopdy, in every job, should be reviewed yearly and compensated based on production. Why any sector of our society - govt or private - escapes that necessary weeding process is beyond me. How the hell else shall we evolve? I have to fight for money every day. Make the goddamned state employees and teachers do the same. If they can't make it, good. More money for everyone who can.

How do you work around the fact that someone has to teach the kids who get no support from home and who may not want to learn? I can flee my company like a rat from a sinking ship if it seems like it's sinking, and that's all part of the market -- companies should be allowed to fail.* But it seems like we have a social value that says that all kids have to be provided with education up to a certain point. Do we want the crappiest, most unmotivated teachers teaching those kids?

*bwahahahahahaha.