Posting Towards Gomorrah

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
I am sorry. Am I missing something here?

If you have to ask, you have a sense of what the answer is going to be.

Are you saying the transcripts and the video clip don't represent what he really said?

No.

You said if we were privy to the entire transcript that it would be obvious the meaning was different.

To be technical, I said that Chris Matthews and Dick Armey said that. I also said that I don't care enough to bother to look for the transcript myself.

You never said anything about changing what he said to get to the true meaning.

You asked what word was missing. The missing word is "us." See ncs' post -- she put it more succinctly than I did.

You didn't point out which words you were referring to. You just had the general notion that some words were out there and that those nebulous words were misleading compared to some other group of nebulous words that were not misleading. Until I had put up the clip we had no definite idea of what was said. I was I suppossed to read your mind and know exacly what words you though were insufficient and which words were not. I put up the video clip to show the exact words he said (because a transcript could be erroneous and at the time no one had posted an exact quote). In addition, sometimes a video clip shows meaning through inflections and sarcasm that does not come across in a transcript. I put up the video clip to show that the meaning was not changed through infelction etc. In addition, I thought if you listened to the video clip it would be hard to imagine any words before or after that would change the meaning of what I said. In other words, if you listen to the video clip you will realize that there could be no words before or after his comment that would change the meaning of what he said. And I am right. There are no words.

Chris Matthews and Dick Armey may be wrong -- it has happened before -- but you won't be able to tell from looking only at your ten-second clip.

Like usual you had some hearsay about Kerry's clips and you just assumed it was true because it was pro Kerry. Of course if it was an unsubstantiated allegation about something that supports the President you would have demanded a cite and would have immediately assumed it was not true. But since the assertion you bought supported Kerry you just assumed it was true and couldn't believe any one else would assume that the clip showed all the relevent material.

You make a nebulous assertion and I post the actual relevent clip about the statement in question but somehow you believing an unsubstantiated allegation that turns out to be wrong, and me believing the actual video tape makes you in the right and me moronic. Please. Give it up.

You assumed an usubstantiated allegation is true and it blew up in your face.

When Dick Armey says the GOP is hyping a fake controversy, he has some credibility in my mind. Likewise John Derbyshire.

You keep thinking I care about this as much as you do. While I am entertained by your posts on the subject, I don't really care about what Kerry said. He's a poor public speaker, but he's not up for election and I'm reasonably sure that this episode has made it even less likely that he'll get any traction in two years. I don't think the flap has persuaded any swing voters that Bush has a notion of how to make things work in Iraq, and so I don't think it's changing any votes in next week's races. (I understand that you disagree, which means that one of us will be wrong.) It may get conservatives like yourself all excited, which would help turn out the GOP base, but I tend to think that the people who are getting excited by this stuff are the same people who breathlessly circulate the bon mots of Mona Charen -- i.e., Republicans who are going to vote in any event. YMMV.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by nononono
I am familiar, sweetheart. I didn't tell you not to fling insults; I said your overwrought use of them left me with nothing to respond to in your posts. I could possibly have comprehended it had we exchanged more than a note or two, but your immediate explosion was hysterical and a bit quick off the trigger. Hopefully this doesn't carry over into the rest of your life.

Nah. Normally I give pretty women two or three chances to say something without being snotty, condescending, and just plain wrong. Here, I typically limit it to one, especially if I've got work to do. It's just more efficient.

[nononono]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
That's relevant in two years if he runs. Right now, I think there are more important issues facing the country.

Of course there are. But he is still an elected representative, correct? One with higher aspirations? If he's starting to run now, maybe he's made it topical if of relatively minor consequence. And anyway, what's wrong with reconfirming that Kerry goes over like a lead balloon when he tries to get loose?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I just told you where you could find the discussion that says that.

Now quit your trolling and find something relevant to discuss.

umm it is the same one that makes the claim w/o the transcript and w/o any statement from someone who had it?

i will grant Ty this much, it is odd the clip focuses only on those 10 seconds. in today's world everything is taped. it is odd that neither side has aired more of the speech- either to prove, or disprove, what the Dems say it means.

oh, and beyond the issue, the dem's blind acceptance on this is quite relevant in evaluating anytihng you guys ever allege in the future. It was the first rule i taught Spanky here- you can't trust Ty's allegations- make him show his evidence; but I had forgotten my own teaching until now.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Interesting bit about former Rs, now Ds, running for offices in Kansas.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061102/...ions_kansas_dc


And an interesting quote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A cross-section of Democrats, moderate Republicans and independents are backing the party-switchers, saying a Republican obsession with expanded government and deficit spending, along with divisive social issues like abortion and gay marriage, has marred efforts to limit government, boost spending on education and ensure fiscal responsibility.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Perhaps Bilmore can explain why these people are all active traitors who support terrorists, while Spanky can explain why they are all active traitors whom terrorists support.

Thank you - this is what I keep noting. The R's are losing elements of their traditional base, especially the fiscally conservative but socially liberal part. There is no place else for these people to go but the Democratic party.

This is the natural long-term outcome of Rovism.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
you don't think most prosecutors won't use a challenge in a domestic violence case that way?

If I were prosecuting that case, I would certainly have to play the odds as I saw them. That's what you do when you pick a jury.

However, I don't think that's the point Spanky was making.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by nononono
I still think the greater issue is the judgment, or lack thereof, in trying to make such a stupid joke to begin with.

Ding ding ding!!!! We have a win-ner!

"I meant to make a joke about George Bush -- how if you don't work hard in school, like him, you end up getting US stuck in Iraq. It was a stupid joke, and I was even more stupid in messing it up. And I'm sorry. I respect all of our soldiers, and all of my fellow combat veterans. I will now crawl back into the money-lined hole from whence I emerged."

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
it is just as likely he didn't mean the "us" to be there, and it was an off the cuff joke from a stilted millionaire who is out of touch with the real world.

he was a former soldier? big deal. until he decided to run for President the fellow soldiers he served with acted "like genghis Khan's hordes." He could say that but not say something disrespectful about the education level of the people who enlist?

before you answer, remember a few people here agreed that mostly the poorly educated make up the army AND Mikey Moore made the same argument is his mocku-drama.

In Kerry's defense, he only looks like he's on stilts.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
You are bizarre to be arguing this. Kerry had a joke he was trying to tell. He screwed up the delivery. The way that he screwed up the delivery was that he left out the word "us". I get that this is supposed to play well to the not-willing-to-stay-reasonably-informed general public, but I expect more of you, Spanky. JFC. The guy fought in Vietnam and the republican spin machine is that he thinks our troops are all idiots? So he's an idiot too, right?

You are jumping in here when you have no idea what we are talking about. I never said this was relevent to the election. I did say the it was gift from Kerry to Bush.

Ty said that if you heard the entire transcript that the meaning of Kerry was trying to say was obvious. In other words, a shortened version was being put out there that was intentionally misleading, like a quote taken out of context. I said that I doubt that because if the quote was taken out of context then Kerry, and the Democrat spin machine would be blasting the real transcript everywhere.

Ty was incredulous that I doubted his assertion even though he did not have the "full transcript" to back his story.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
In Kerry's defense, he only looks like he's on stilts.

help a brother out- what word should i have used? in my defense, if sidd knew my background coming out of High School, he would have pegged me for the army.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
umm it is the same one that makes the claim w/o the transcript and w/o any statement from someone who had it?

i will grant Ty this much, it is odd the clip focuses only on those 10 seconds. in today's world everything is taped. it is odd that neither side has aired more of the speech- either to prove, or disprove, what the Dems say it means.

oh, and beyond the issue, the dem's blind acceptance on this is quite relevant in evaluating anytihng you guys ever allege in the future. It was the first rule i taught Spanky here- you can't trust Ty's allegations- make him show his evidence; but I had forgotten my own teaching until now.

Dick Armey is a Dem?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Ding ding ding!!!! We have a win-ner!

I think you've dug the hole too deep - there's no hope for you with her. But I admire that you keep trying.

[nononono]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Nah. Normally I give pretty women two or three chances to say something without being snotty, condescending, and just plain wrong. Here, I typically limit it to one, especially if I've got work to do. It's just more efficient.

It wasn't your verbal explosions that your quick trigger here caused me to worry about.

What's amusing to me here is that I've confirmed we were talking about totally different subjects - yours, apparently, limited to the singular issue that fewer wealthy people than not-wealthy join the military - and yet, instead of taking the graceful way out of the conflict that I afforded you, you continue to be hot under the collar about...nothing. It's not pretty.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Dick Armey is a Dem?

i meant you guys. again, i am from a lower middle class background- i probably should have ended up in the military instead of trying to joust with you all.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I think you've dug the hole too deep - there's no hope for you with her. But I admire that you keep trying.

I like a challenge. Besides, I'm married with two kids; if I took a shot at any woman on the board who might actually want to fuck me, it would create confusion for me.