Politics: A new beginning

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
That makes for great imagery, but there is no doubt that a village of Mexicans can move to Nebraska. Make Mexico more competive and maybe they wouldn't have such an incentive to come here.

Sure, or stop winking and nodding at below-minimum-wage labor in the US.

I'm not a big fan of the minimum wage, but I'll grant that it's become a basic tenet of our economy. If we think no reasonable american should work for below $x/hr, then we should let those jobs go overseas, not stay here under the radar. Which is why you'd have to move Nebraska to Mexico--a giant sucking sound would accompany it, but that's world economics.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Sure, or stop winking and nodding at below-minimum-wage labor in the US.

I'm not a big fan of the minimum wage, but I'll grant that it's become a basic tenet of our economy. If we think no reasonable american should work for below $x/hr, then we should let those jobs go overseas, not stay here under the radar. Which is why you'd have to move Nebraska to Mexico--a giant sucking sound would accompany it, but that's world economics.

Again, I'm not sure there is a minimum wage for farm workers so even if the existing min wage laws were fully enforced, there wouldn't be an issue (other than the one of people having alternate higher-paying employment and farm employers have to pay more to compete).

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Again, I'm not sure there is a minimum wage for farm workers so even if the existing min wage laws were fully enforced, there wouldn't be an issue (other than the one of people having alternate higher-paying employment and farm employers have to pay more to compete).

But that doesn't really answer the question. It says that Congress gave a sop to farmers by exempting them from minimum wage laws. Why should they be exempt when factories that have to compete with, e.g., cheap overseas steel, have to pay the min.? It's just another form of subsidy to the farm cos.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Sure, or stop winking and nodding at below-minimum-wage labor in the US.

I'm not a big fan of the minimum wage, but I'll grant that it's become a basic tenet of our economy. If we think no reasonable american should work for below $x/hr, then we should let those jobs go overseas, not stay here under the radar. Which is why you'd have to move Nebraska to Mexico--a giant sucking sound would accompany it, but that's world economics.

I once had a lecture on this from a price theory guy at, well, a world class school in the area. He asked a class to justify the minimum wage. Of course, I couldn't on a direct numerical economic analysis, but I could on social theory.

Specifically, by taking out the low end of the market, we are essentially telling our workers to get better skills. Since the minimum wage disproportionately affects young people, who should be in school and not working anyway, I argued that at least 50% of the effect was a beneficial effect.

Well, maybe not 50%, but whatever percent it is that comprises people under 21.

Piece this together with my national service plan, and this country's problems would be solved in a few fell swoops.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me

Piece this together with my national service plan, and this country's problems would be solved in a few fell swoops.

Pinko.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Pinko.

Memories, of the waaay we wuuuuuur!

[Tyrone Slothrop]

courtesy of Slate:

[sgtclub]

The "I'm bored" question of the day. Discuss:

If you were an enemy of America and were thinking of starting a war, and had your choice as to whether the American military would be comprised of (a) those that affiliated themselves with the GOP or (b) those that affiliated themselves with the DEMS, who would you choose?

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by sgtclub
The "I'm bored" question of the day. Discuss:

If you were an enemy of America and were thinking of starting a war, and had your choice as to whether the American military would be comprised of (a) those that affiliated themselves with the GOP or (b) those that affiliated themselves with the DEMS, who would you choose?

Too easy. I'd want the American army to be comprised of (c) those that are not affiliated with the South. The rest of this country is a buncha wimps.

Edited to add: except my big brother, who tells me all the time how much he misses the south.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
But that doesn't really answer the question. It says that Congress gave a sop to farmers by exempting them from minimum wage laws. Why should they be exempt when factories that have to compete with, e.g., cheap overseas steel, have to pay the min.? It's just another form of subsidy to the farm cos.

I totally agree, but it does change the specific question of how Nebraska under current law compares to, say, Mexico, and how they compare now is important in evaluating how things would change if you got rid of subsidies (and which ones? just the explicit "we pay you not to grow stuff" (or pay you extra to grow stuff) or the ones like policies and/or laws that make water cheaper for farmers, and policies and/or laws like the min wage one that make labor cheaper for farmers?).

Besides you specifically brought up the min wage thing as "farmers should have to observe the min wage to Americans instead of avoiding the min wage by hiring illegals" and the min wage is, in this case, perhaps not the reason they are hiring illegals. I think some states at least have min wages and as I said I'm finding conflicting stuff about when it applies.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
and the min wage is, in this case, perhaps not the reason they are hiring illegals. I think some states at least have min wages and as I said I'm finding conflicting stuff about when it applies.

Are you saying that most farms actually adhere to the applicable minimum wage laws when they hire itinerant laborers?

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
. I'd want the American army to be comprised of (c) those that are not affiliated with the South.

Uh, yeah, what with the South's 140-year winning streak and all.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Yup, the system sucks but I'd love to hear any suggestions on how it could be improved. The author makes none that I remember reading.
* * * * *
The current state is just another example of how hypocritical this nation (our populace) can be. We demand laws and enforcement. Our unions scream whenever they get the chance. But ask someone to pay for 2 million border guards and people suddenly start clamming up.

I think that was her point.

Like just about anything else, I'd rather see illegal immigrants documented and regulated and, perhaps, denied state benefits while being forced to pay taxes.

Where's the justice there? They're paying taxes.

I think the better answer is, e.g., national identity cards for everyone so that we can start keeping track of people a bit better.

I really don't want to live in a country where you have to carry a national identity card with you so that the authorities can keep track of me.

originally posted by Burger
Things'd be more expensive.

OK. We have such a massive dependence on illegal immigration to make our economy work that it seems to me wholly unrealistic to try to enforce the laws. We can either change the laws, or continue the current regime. Myself, I would liberalize immigration.

And re the article's points about how the INS is making life tough for legitimate visitors: This is the same thing I complained about re airline security a few months ago. We hire dolts who seem to think they're doing their job if they make everyone miserable. The legitimate terrorists will suck up the misery happily. Why can't we hire some competent Israelis to run things?

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Are you saying that most farms actually adhere to the applicable minimum wage laws when they hire itinerant laborers?

I'm saying that farms are not subject to minimum wage laws, no matter who they hire. So there is nothing to adhere to, no matter who they are hiring. UNLESS there is a state min wage law, but one thing that came up when I googled seemed to be saying that Idaho was only the 10th state to pass such a law and it was undated but looked like an article from either mid-to-late 2001 or maybe 2002.

Though, how min wage laws apply to farm workers is something I'm only pretty sure about and not something I'm entirely sure about, and I'd truly love it if someone who actually for-sure knows would bust out and say so.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I'm saying that farms are not subject to minimum wage laws, no matter who they hire. So there is nothing to adhere to, no matter who they are hiring. UNLESS there is a state min wage law, but one thing that came up when I googled seemed to be saying that Idaho was only the 10th state to pass such a law and it was undated but looked like an article from either mid-to-late 2001 or maybe 2002.

Though, how min wage laws apply to farm workers is something I'm only pretty sure about and not something I'm entirely sure about, and I'd truly love it if someone who actually for-sure knows would bust out and say so.

I know, but I'm not telling you.*



*Unless you ply me with booze.**



**Or maybe I don't know, but I view this as an opportunity to be plied with booze.