Objectively intelligent.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Here's part of MN's 1st Degree Murder Statute:

609.185 MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE.

(a) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of murder in the first degree and shall be sentenced to imprisonment for life:

(1) causes the death of a human being with premeditation and with intent to effect the death of the person or of another;

As I noted earlier, premeditation occurs when Chauvin realizes he is killing Floyd. Chavin realizes this because he hears Floyd saying he cannot breathe and the crowd around him is telling him he is killing Floyd.

At that point, Chauvin's mind is processing that he is stopping Floyd from breathing, which is killing Floyd (humans w/o oxygen = dead). That happens very early in the process. Despite processing this, and being under no fear of attack from Floyd or the crowd, as he is surrounded by fellow officers, some of whom are holding down Floyd, Chauvin calmly, deliberately continues to choke out Floyd.

As I noted earlier, each time Chauvin hears Floyd or the crowd tell him that he is making it impossible for Floyd to breathe, he is reaffirming an intent to stop Floyd from breathing, which = intent to kill.

Then you come to the end of the video, where Floyd is no longer speaking. At this point, Chauvin knows Floyd has been incapacitated as a result of not breathing. To incapacitate a person by stopping him from breathing is called strangling. And yet Chavin sits on Floyd for at least two minutes while Floyd is silent. All while the crowd is telling him that he has choked Floyd to death.

Of course Chauvin will argue he didn't believe Floyd or the crowd, and that he didn't think he was killing him. But kneeling on a man's neck for eight minutes gives one eight minutes to think about what he's doing. Eight minutes to listen to people telling him to stop.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...e-conduct.html Can premeditation occur AFTER the act begins? This says no.

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Here's part of MN's 1st Degree Murder Statute:

609.185 MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE.

(a) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of murder in the first degree and shall be sentenced to imprisonment for life:

(1) causes the death of a human being with premeditation and with intent to effect the death of the person or of another;

As I noted earlier, premeditation occurs when Chauvin realizes he is killing Floyd. Chavin realizes this because he hears Floyd saying he cannot breathe and the crowd around him is telling him he is killing Floyd.

At that point, Chauvin's mind is processing that he is stopping Floyd from breathing, which is killing Floyd (humans w/o oxygen = dead). That happens very early in the process. Despite processing this, and being under no fear of attack from Floyd or the crowd, as he is surrounded by fellow officers, some of whom are holding down Floyd, Chauvin calmly, deliberately continues to choke out Floyd.

As I noted earlier, each time Chauvin hears Floyd or the crowd tell him that he is making it impossible for Floyd to breathe, he is reaffirming an intent to stop Floyd from breathing, which = intent to kill.

Then you come to the end of the video, where Floyd is no longer speaking. At this point, Chauvin knows Floyd has been incapacitated as a result of not breathing. To incapacitate a person by stopping him from breathing is called strangling. And yet Chavin sits on Floyd for at least two minutes while Floyd is silent. All while the crowd is telling him that he has choked Floyd to death.

Of course Chauvin will argue he didn't believe Floyd or the crowd, and that he didn't think he was killing him. But kneeling on a man's neck for eight minutes gives one eight minutes to think about what he's doing. Eight minutes to listen to people telling him to stop.

Premeditation is defined as (1) deciding to kill (2) before the act. So your definition wouldn't fit. Some cop replied to me on twitter that premeditation can be a minute before the act but my question is "What is the act?" I am guessing it's a fact question but I do not know if there's any precedent. I would say the act is placing the knee on the neck during the stop, Chauvin decided to kill. On the other hand, defense would say the act is the stop. All irrelevant now.

If you look at that cop's rap sheet, I hate to break it to you bud but the civil suit against The City of Minneapolis will be in the #billionswithab

That cop would've been kicked out of ISIS.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

Premeditation is defined as (1) deciding to kill (2) before the act. So your definition wouldn't fit. Some cop replied to me on twitter that premeditation can be a minute before the act but my question is "What is the act?" I am guessing it's a fact question but I do not know if there's any precedent. I would say the act is placing the knee on the neck during the stop, Chauvin decided to kill. On the other hand, defense would say the act is the stop. All irrelevant now.

If you look at that cop's rap sheet, I hate to break it to you bud but the civil suit against The City of Minneapolis will be in the #billionswithab

That cop would've been kicked out of ISIS.

Am I on ignore? The stop cannot be the act, or things are seriously fucked. The act is the knee, but the knee, at first, was not intended to kill. And all of the feedback that the man was dying cannot turn the rest of the act into premeditation, can it?

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Am I on ignore?

Posted without catching up. Great minds think alike.

[LessinSF]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

also, doesn't Minnesota have depraved/blackened heart murder? https://time.com/3843388/freddie-gra...-heart-murder/

Yes. 3rd degree murder:

"609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both."

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

Yes. 3rd degree murder:

"609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both."

ahh, 2nd degree in Maryland. I swear when I was in LS it was 1st. I think.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Am I on ignore? The stop cannot be the act, or things are seriously fucked. The act is the knee, but the knee, at first, was not intended to kill. And all of the feedback that the man was dying cannot turn the rest of the act into premeditation, can it?

The act is the continued application of the knee after learning that it was killing the man. Each statement made to the cop that he was killing Floyd arguably triggers a unique act in response to it. Each time the cop is confronted with the decision to stop doing something that is killing a man and refuses to do so he is deciding, with premeditation (which can be short), to kill the man.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

The act is the continued application of the knee after learning that it was killing the man. Each statement made to the cop that he was killing Floyd arguably triggers a unique act in response to it. Each time the cop is confronted with the decision to stop doing something that is killing a man and refuses to do so he is deciding, with premeditation (which can be short), to kill the man.

I went to law school, and I've briefed and argued some weak cases, so I hear your theory, but under that theory every murder that is not instantaneous would be premeditated. Plus, the next second of knee doesn't kill without the prior minutes, the "act" doesn't restart.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Icky Thump

Premeditation is defined as (1) deciding to kill (2) before the act. So your definition wouldn't fit. Some cop replied to me on twitter that premeditation can be a minute before the act but my question is "What is the act?" I am guessing it's a fact question but I do not know if there's any precedent. I would say the act is placing the knee on the neck during the stop, Chauvin decided to kill. On the other hand, defense would say the act is the stop. All irrelevant now.

If you look at that cop's rap sheet, I hate to break it to you bud but the civil suit against The City of Minneapolis will be in the #billionswithab

That cop would've been kicked out of ISIS.

Nah. The civil settlements only get big when it’s a white lady. Rather doubt this tops that one.

[LessinSF]

Originally Posted by Adder

Nah. The civil settlements only get big when it’s a white lady. Rather doubt this tops that one.

That doesn't apply when it becomes a cause celebre. Minneapolis' taxpayers will be paying big to make this go away.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

That doesn't apply when it becomes a cause celebre. Minneapolis' taxpayers will be paying big to make this go away.

Here’s a little glimpse into my new fucking normal. Recycling and trash bins are put in the garage so they are not used to make flaming barricades like last night. Propane from the grill? In the garage. Flower pots and other projectiles put away. Porch furniture put away. Other obvious flammables put away. Some neighbors are hosing down their porches, for whatever good that will do. I ran into a neighbor and said, “Well, here comes another night.” Which apparently wasn’t the lighthearted small talk I meant it to be because she started sobbing. Is this all overkill? I really hope so. But nerves are seriously frayed here and the helicopters never stop, and the freeways are closed, and curfew is in three minutes.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Here’s a little glimpse into my new fucking normal. Recycling and trash bins are put in the garage so they are not used to make flaming barricades like last night. Propane from the grill? In the garage. Flower pots and other projectiles put away. Porch furniture put away. Other obvious flammables put away. Some neighbors are hosing down their porches, for whatever good that will do. I ran into a neighbor and said, “Well, here comes another night.” Which apparently wasn’t the lighthearted small talk I meant it to be because she started sobbing. Is this all overkill? I really hope so. But nerves are seriously frayed here and the helicopters never stop, and the freeways are closed, and curfew is in three minutes.

Fuck, stay safe guys.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

That doesn't apply when it becomes a cause celebre. Minneapolis' taxpayers will be paying big to make this go away.

But see Jamar Clark. There will be a sizable settlement, but not that sizable.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Here’s a little glimpse into my new fucking normal. Recycling and trash bins are put in the garage so they are not used to make flaming barricades like last night. Propane from the grill? In the garage. Flower pots and other projectiles put away. Porch furniture put away. Other obvious flammables put away. Some neighbors are hosing down their porches, for whatever good that will do. I ran into a neighbor and said, “Well, here comes another night.” Which apparently wasn’t the lighthearted small talk I meant it to be because she started sobbing. Is this all overkill? I really hope so. But nerves are seriously frayed here and the helicopters never stop, and the freeways are closed, and curfew is in three minutes.

Stay safe, man. And run if you have to.

We put the bins in the garage but that’s about it. Currently on the patio with a baseball bat but unlikely to stay up late enough to matter.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Adder

Stay safe, man. And run if you have to.

We put the bins in the garage but that’s about it. Currently on the patio with a baseball bat but unlikely to stay up late enough to matter.

Eerily quiet out there after initial display of force by police/troopers. Hearing sirens and explosions occasionally but no helicopters right now. All sorts of crazy reports from Twitter and friends about plateless vehicles, suspected right wing infiltrators, small groups of dudes wandering residential neighborhoods with weapons. We have an evacuation plan in place, just in case.