Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Anti-Muslim reactions are vile. But it must be noted that if that sort of thing should become a significant trend, Jews will be some of the strongest defenders of Muslims’ right to exist unmolested and in peace. Jews walk the walk.

If one doubts the Jewish commitment to freedom, recall that Ira Glasser, head of the ACLU at the time, defended the rights of Nazis to march in Skokie.

Umm, it is a trend. Yes, folks like the people at Jewish Voice for Peace and Jewish Currents have come out very strongly against it; ADL and AIPAC, not so much. Once upon a time ADL certainly would have and AIPAC might have, but today, no, that's not their schtick.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Repugnant.

However, I have no problem with anyone doing whatever he or she likes to Hamas apologists. And there are lots of Hamas apologists out there.

The pro-Palestinians will argue that the Israeli attack kills the innocent. That’s a fair argument. The Hamas apologists will argue the extreme violence was necessitated because the Gazans had no other way to fight back. The former should be engaged. The latter should be ignored, and if they should refuse to be ignored, have their teeth scattered about the pavement on which they stand.

If you apologize for Hamas, I have a right to escalate. You’re a degenerate fool. And you should suffer physical damage.

ETA: But if I should force one of those lovely little college student justice warriors to choke on that flag because he’s blocked my ingress to a public building, that’s on me. I should be prosecuted. I’ll be in violation of a principle - free speech - observed by Israel and the US, which renders us, and all other Enlightenment-informed cultures, superior to the rest of the world.

I’ll happily pay the fine, take the misdemeanor.

There seem to be a lot of Palestinian nationalists who are being treated as Hamas apologists. One might think you'd sympathize with their efforts to stake out an increasingly irrelevant centrism.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

There seem to be a lot of Palestinian nationalists who are being treated as Hamas apologists. One might think you'd sympathize with their efforts to stake out an increasingly irrelevant centrism.

I do, and I don't think theirs is an irrelevant position. Desiring a free state for Palestinians is a valid position. Those people are not at all Hamas apologists, and should not be treated as such.

There is one noxious position that seems to characterize all Hamas apologists:

"The people had no other way to fight for themselves and get attention except for doing something drastic, as they did."

That position has no validity given what Hamas did. First, it conflates Palestinians and Hamas. Two different things. Palestinians do not want war. Many of them near the border worked in Israel. If anything, they want to be free of Hamas' subjugation, and to live in Israel, or a free state like Israel. Second, it is a frivolous attempt at expansion of the almost always frivolous argument that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Third, it plainly states that murder of innocents is an acceptable political act.

If one argues that Hamas was somehow pushed to do what it did here, that person is knowingly ignoring objective reality and completely avoiding the real and obvious reasons we all know Hamas did what it did. I do not understand why anyone would seek to so obscure issues except out of bias, ignorance, or ill intent.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I do, and I don't think theirs is an irrelevant position. Desiring a free state for Palestinians is a valid position. Those people are not at all Hamas apologists, and should not be treated as such.

There is one noxious position that seems to characterize all Hamas apologists:

"The people had no other way to fight for themselves and get attention except for doing something drastic, as they did."

That position has no validity given what Hamas did. First, it conflates Palestinians and Hamas. Two different things. Palestinians do not want war. Many of them near the border worked in Israel. If anything, they want to be free of Hamas' subjugation, and to live in Israel, or a free state like Israel. Second, it is a frivolous attempt at expansion of the almost always frivolous argument that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Third, it plainly states that murder of innocents is an acceptable political act.

If one argues that Hamas was somehow pushed to do what it did here, that person is knowingly ignoring objective reality and completely avoiding the real and obvious reasons we all know Hamas did what it did. I do not understand why anyone would seek to so obscure issues except out of bias, ignorance, or ill intent.

Speaking of obscuring, trying to explain why Hamas did what it did is not apology.

It's a little odd that we are still stuck here on the semantics of how to condemn Hamas, when Israel is killing thousands of people in Gaza and Israeli settlers are acting against Palestinians in the West Bank.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Speaking of obscuring, trying to explain why Hamas did what it did is not apology.

It's a little odd that we are still stuck here on the semantics of how to condemn Hamas, when Israel is killing thousands of people in Gaza and Israeli settlers are acting against Palestinians in the West Bank.

I'm happy to condemn Hamas all day long, but, we also need to recognize that Israelis are killing civilians at a rate that exceeds the worst of Assad, and that what has been going on in the West Bank for the last couple of decades is indefensible.

And if you're wondering how to create more terrorists, what Israel is doing right now is a master class. It's a truly vicious cycle.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

I'm happy to condemn Hamas all day long, but, we also need to recognize that Israelis are killing civilians at a rate that exceeds the worst of Assad, and that what has been going on in the West Bank for the last couple of decades is indefensible.

And if you're wondering how to create more terrorists, what Israel is doing right now is a master class. It's a truly vicious cycle.

All in the name of "destroying Hamas," as though such a thing is possible via violence.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Matt Yglesias is right about the way people react to anti-Semitism.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Matt Yglesias is right about the way people react to anti-Semitism.

I think you mean Maya Bodnick is right about this. With which I concur.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

I think you mean Maya Bodnick is right about this. With which I concur.

Waiting for Sebby to get upset about this sort of cancel culture.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Waiting for Sebby to get upset about this sort of cancel culture.

Took a minute.

And Mel Gibson is still making movies.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Took a minute.

And Mel Gibson is still making movies.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/la-et...htmlstory.html

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Took a minute.

Really just in his youth, in his later years more of a Phalangist.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

https://www.chicagotribune.com/la-et...htmlstory.html

Yeah, I don't go to them anymore. I'm not sure why anyone does.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Really just in his youth, in his later years more of a Phalangist.

What? Not sure what you mean.

I mean Hollywood should have fired Sarandon a long time ago.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

Yeah, I don't go to them anymore. I'm not sure why anyone does.

Huh? Don’t go to his movies?