Happy Birthday, Preston Michael Spears Federline and other Certain Special Someones!

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by Alex_de_Large
That's why I live in the city and not in the burbs.

I grew up in Ambler. Named for Mary Ambler, heroine of a railroad accident. No shit. That's what it says on the sign heading into town. Nice enough place. All in all, I'd rather be from Ambler than say, Conshohocken.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
They're already aware and don't seem to mind in this particular instance.

http://www.indianz.com/News/2005/008871.asp

Here's the key to that article:

"Tribal and FSU officials said they have had a long relationship. But they want to do more, such as create educational, health and other opportunities for tribal members."

And this was taken from a link at the end of the article:

'The resolution passed Friday gives FSU permission "to use the name, 'Seminole,' as well as various Seminole symbols and images, such as Chief Osceola, for educational purposes," according to a release from the university.

"They had this resolution in mind, because the issue had cropped up with the NCAA (National Collegiate Athletic Association), and made national news," said Frank Murphy, spokesman for FSU, who also attended the tribal council meeting.

The NCAA has been scrutinizing the issue, and is set to release its report in August.

"It was the first time we have ever been invited (to the tribal council)," Murphy said. "They wanted to talk about what we might do together, and, indeed, the resolution invites that beyond the use of the Seminole symbol, that we start looking at some things that are positive."

Preliminary ideas proposed by Wetherell include:

• Assistance starting a charter school on the Brighton Reservation where Florida Gulf Coast University already runs a summer enrichment program;

• Help with medical services at the Immokalee Reservation through the FSU College of Medicine in Sarasota;

• Establishment of a Center for Seminole Heritage and Culture on the Tallahassee campus;

• Bringing Seminole master builders to Tallahassee to construct a traditional Seminole shelter called a "chickee" on the campus.

FSU has used the Seminole name for campus activities for many years, and has included a color guard from the Seminole nation at commencement, and featured a Seminole princess at homecoming activities. Since Wetherell was named president, FSU instituted "Seminole Scholars," members of the tribe who receive 80 percent tuition scholarships.

Even so, a critic of sports teams' using American Indian names said FSU should have been assisting the Seminole community long before now.

"If there are needs, they should be doing those things anyway," said Leigh Jeanotte, director of American Indian student services at the University of North Dakota, and a Turtle Mountain Chippewa.

Jeanotte said naming sports teams - whether professional or college - inevitably leads to derogatory remarks from fans of opposing teams.

"There's to way to control the spectators," Jeanotte said. "The goal of the opposing team is to poke fun. You can't control that. And, because its about a group of individuals - a race of people - it's not appropriate."

Emman Spain, a member of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma and its historic preservation officer, agreed that naming a sports team for an American tribe can lead to racist remarks.

"We are real, actual, living people, who have children and love our nation," Spain said.

The Seminoles in Oklahoma are descendents of Florida tribes that were forcibly removed in the 1830s, Spain said. They were taken in chains by boat, to lessen their chances of escape on land.

"The Seminoles were removed by water - shipped from Tampa to New Orleans, and up the Mississippi, and then up the Arkansas River to Oklahoma," Spain said. "Half our tribe died defending our homeland in Florida."

But Spain said "something good" can come from the NCAA controversy, especially if it leads to more educational and cultural opportunities at FSU for Seminoles.'
__________

I guess when the threat of losing the name comes up, they're all for educating people and doing something positive (although I will note that they had who knows how many scholarships set aside (for a community of 3,000 people) and a color guard and princess at homecoming).

But I wonder how excited they would have been to start these programs had the NCAA not started to look into whether the name is appropriate.

I think the Seminole tribe should be granted a trademark of the name in perpetuity. Then, when it costs the school $50,000,000 a year to use it, we would see just how important that name is to the school.

TM

ETA: "Like most of these schools, FSU claims that ''our Indians'' support them. A recently deposed Seminole tribal leader was an FSU booster, especially after taking in games with trustees in the skybox, but there are many Seminole people and Osceola family members in Florida and Oklahoma who aren't happy with FSU's recreational use of their good names.

The Seminole Nation is on record, along with the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw and Muscogee (Creek) nations, opposing tribal names and ''Native'' references in sports. FSU and journalists in Florida say that only the American Indian Movement is opposed to FSU's use of Seminole and Osceola, and they always seem to find one agreeable Seminole person. But the best FSU can claim honestly is the support of a minority of Seminole people. And, for the record, every major American Indian organization has called for an end to ''Native'' references in sports."

http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096410987

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Here's the key to that article:

"Tribal and FSU officials said they have had a long relationship. But they want to do more, such as create educational, health and other opportunities for tribal members."

And this was taken from a link at the end of the article:

'The resolution passed Friday gives FSU permission "to use the name, 'Seminole,' as well as various Seminole symbols and images, such as Chief Osceola, for educational purposes," according to a release from the university.

"They had this resolution in mind, because the issue had cropped up with the NCAA (National Collegiate Athletic Association), and made national news," said Frank Murphy, spokesman for FSU, who also attended the tribal council meeting.

The NCAA has been scrutinizing the issue, and is set to release its report in August.

"It was the first time we have ever been invited (to the tribal council)," Murphy said. "They wanted to talk about what we might do together, and, indeed, the resolution invites that beyond the use of the Seminole symbol, that we start looking at some things that are positive."

Preliminary ideas proposed by Wetherell include:

• Assistance starting a charter school on the Brighton Reservation where Florida Gulf Coast University already runs a summer enrichment program;

• Help with medical services at the Immokalee Reservation through the FSU College of Medicine in Sarasota;

• Establishment of a Center for Seminole Heritage and Culture on the Tallahassee campus;

• Bringing Seminole master builders to Tallahassee to construct a traditional Seminole shelter called a "chickee" on the campus.

FSU has used the Seminole name for campus activities for many years, and has included a color guard from the Seminole nation at commencement, and featured a Seminole princess at homecoming activities. Since Wetherell was named president, FSU instituted "Seminole Scholars," members of the tribe who receive 80 percent tuition scholarships.

Even so, a critic of sports teams' using American Indian names said FSU should have been assisting the Seminole community long before now.

"If there are needs, they should be doing those things anyway," said Leigh Jeanotte, director of American Indian student services at the University of North Dakota, and a Turtle Mountain Chippewa.

Jeanotte said naming sports teams - whether professional or college - inevitably leads to derogatory remarks from fans of opposing teams.

"There's to way to control the spectators," Jeanotte said. "The goal of the opposing team is to poke fun. You can't control that. And, because its about a group of individuals - a race of people - it's not appropriate."

Emman Spain, a member of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma and its historic preservation officer, agreed that naming a sports team for an American tribe can lead to racist remarks.

"We are real, actual, living people, who have children and love our nation," Spain said.

The Seminoles in Oklahoma are descendents of Florida tribes that were forcibly removed in the 1830s, Spain said. They were taken in chains by boat, to lessen their chances of escape on land.

"The Seminoles were removed by water - shipped from Tampa to New Orleans, and up the Mississippi, and then up the Arkansas River to Oklahoma," Spain said. "Half our tribe died defending our homeland in Florida."

But Spain said "something good" can come from the NCAA controversy, especially if it leads to more educational and cultural opportunities at FSU for Seminoles.'
__________

I guess when the threat of losing the name comes up, they're all for educating people and doing something positive (although I will note that they had who knows how many scholarships set aside (for a community of 3,000 people) and a color guard and princess at homecoming).

But I wonder how excited they would have been to start these programs had the NCAA not started to look into whether the name is appropriate.

I think the Seminole tribe should be granted a trademark of the name in perpetuity. Then, when it costs the school $50,000,000 a year to use it, we would see just how important that name is to the school.

TM

Or they'd just change their name to the Turtle Mountain Chippewas. That's gotta be cheaper.

[Replaced_Texan]

Priest kills the prom.

Usually, when some sanctimonious religious fixture comes in and decides to quash something like the prom, I tend to take the side of the kids. Not in this case:

Sun Oct 16, 2:15 PM

UNIONDALE, N.Y. - Brother Kenneth M. Hoagland had heard all the stories about prom-night debauchery at his Long Island high school: Students putting down $10,000 to rent a party house in the Hamptons. Pre-prom cocktail parties followed by a trip to the dance in a liquor-loaded limo. Fathers chartering a boat for their children's late-night "booze cruise."

Enough was enough, Hoagland said. So the principal of Kellenberg Memorial High School canceled the spring prom in a 2,000-word letter to parents this fall.

"It is not primarily the sex/booze/drugs that surround this event, as problematic as they might be; it is rather the flaunting of affluence, assuming exaggerated expenses, a pursuit of vanity for vanity's sake _ in a word, financial decadence," Hoagland said, fed up with what he called the "bacchanalian aspects."

"Each year it gets worse _ becomes more exaggerated, more expensive, more emotionally traumatic," he added. "We are withdrawing from the battle and allowing the parents full responsibility. (Kellenberg) is willing to sponsor a prom, but not an orgy."

The move brought a mixed, albeit passionate, reaction from students and parents at the Roman Catholic school, which is owned by the Society of Mary (Marianists), a religious order of priests and brothers.

. . .

Hoagland began talking about the future of the prom last spring after 46 Kellenberg seniors made a $10,000 down payment on a $20,000 rental in the Hamptons for a post-prom party. When school officials found out, they forced the students to cancel the deal; the kids got their money back and the prom went on as planned.

These kids can obviously afford to throw their own damned prom, and the sanctimonious religious folk shouldn't be paying for it.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Long ass post about FSU using the Seminole name...

I have an honest question.

Where do you stand on the UPenn Quakers? (For the record, my high school's arch-rivals were also the Quakers. I still have a button from my cheerleading days that says "Make Quaker Oatmeal"... we also played the Friars.)

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
I have an honest question.

Where do you stand on the UPenn Quakers? (For the record, my high school's arch-rivals were also the Quakers. I still have a button from my cheerleading days that says "Make Quaker Oatmeal"... we also played the Friars.)

those would be okay. since quakers don't use electricity they won't see any games and can't be offended. Friars are the same- monks can't watch TV either, and even if a monk did get offended they couldn't mention it. Vow of silence.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
I have an honest question.

Where do you stand on the UPenn Quakers? (For the record, my high school's arch-rivals were also the Quakers. I still have a button from my cheerleading days that says "Make Quaker Oatmeal"... we also played the Friars.)

We played the New Springfield Barn-Raising Amish.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
those would be okay. since quakers don't use electricity they won't see any games and can't be offended. Friars are the same- monks can't watch TV either, and even if a monk did get offended they couldn't mention it. Vow of silence.

Anyone have an opinion on the Ragin' Cajuns of Lousiana-Lafayette?

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
those would be okay. since quakers don't use electricity they won't see any games and can't be offended. Friars are the same- monks can't watch TV either, and even if a monk did get offended they couldn't mention it. Vow of silence.

??
Some of my friends (ha ha - Quaker pun) are Quakers and they take full advantage of all modern conveniences.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
??
Some of my friends (ha ha - Quaker pun) are Quakers and they take full advantage of all modern conveniences.

2.

I think Hank is mixing up the Quakers with the Amish. Or the Shakers.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by andViolins
You do know that there are some posters residing in the greater Cleveland area who would be more than happy to buy a cocktail or two for visiting out of town guests.

Posters like spooky.

aV

But why would anybody want to get a drink with a cranky old fart like him?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
2.

I think Hank is mixing up the Quakers with the Amish. Or the Shakers.

actually I was hoping no one else knew the distinction- it was necessary for the "joke". but I knew. my in laws live by Abington Friend's School and the sports fields have lights.

[Flinty_McFlint]

Originally posted by taxwonk
But why would anybody want to get a drink with a cranky old fart like him?

It's always entertaining watching him berate the waitstaff.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
??
Some of my friends (ha ha - Quaker pun) are Quakers and they take full advantage of all modern conveniences.

2. And the Meeting House in the Heights doesn't use electric lights because of the Turrell ceiling, not because of aversion to electricity.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
actually I was hoping no one else knew the distinction- it was necessary for the "joke". but I knew my in laws live by Abington Friend's School and the sports fields have lights.

My middle brother is an AFS grad. Their mascot is the Fighting Kangaroo. I could not make that up.