Posting Towards Gomorrah

[SlaveNoMore]

David Broder, no righty he, thinks you'll owe Karl Rove an apology:

W]e now know that the original "leak," in casual conversations with reporters Novak and Bob Woodward, came not from the conspiracy theorists' target in the White House but from the deputy secretary of state at the time, Richard Armitage, an esteemed member of the Washington establishment and no pal of Rove or President Bush. …

Newsweek, in a July 25, 2005, cover story on Rove, after dutifully noting that Rove's lawyer said the prosecutor had told him that Rove was not a target of the investigation, added: "But this isn't just about the Facts, it's about what Rove's foes regard as a higher Truth: That he is a one-man epicenter of a narrative of Evil."

And in the American Prospect's cover story for August 2005, Joe Conason wrote that Rove "is a powerful bully. Fear of retribution has stifled those who might have revealed his secrets. He has enjoyed the impunity of a malefactor who could always claim, however implausibly, deniability — until now."

These and other publications owe Karl Rove an apology. And all of journalism needs to relearn the lesson: Can the conspiracy theories and stick to the facts

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
David Broder, no righty he, thinks you'll owe Karl Rove an apology:

Any word on the indictment?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
"torture, torture, torture" - the left sounds like Chicken Little

Where do you stand in the "ticking bomb" scenario?

It bothers me deeply that that hypothetical always gets trotted out to justify and rationalize things like what happened at Abu Ghraib, or torturing someone who is insane.

What do you think about the fact that Bush wants to have it both ways? He orders torture -- pretend with me for the moment that waterboarding is torture, although apparently we have a difference of opinion about that -- but he's not willing to take the heat by saying that's what he's doing, so he soft-pedals and denies it.

We didn't take a lot of prisoners. Period. Given your well-read sense of history, I'm surprised you're going here.

More true in the Pacific than in Europe. But someone took more than 11 million German POWs, and it was more likely us than the USSR. I further submit to you that we didn't use torture.

All sorts of bad things happened in WWII. That doesn't make torture OK.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Oh, that's right. Whitewash history. Hide the youngsters from the face of the enemy and it'll go away. Bad, bad men. Shoo.

Your kids would probalby sleep much better if they knew they were safe from the Islamist threat.

Well then, I guess you're one of the people that CNN is rerunning their 9/11 coverage for. Enjoy the horror.

I'll probably be watching cartoon network.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
So you are in favour of nuking Iran? Welcome to the club!!!!:hug:

I like pudding.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
David Broder, no righty he, thinks you'll owe Karl Rove an apology:

I still don't understand why the fact that Armitage leaked it to Novak first makes what Rove did OK. Telling me that David Broder says this too isn't really a reason. It's more like barometer on the latest thinking of the Washington press corps.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
It bothers me deeply that that hypothetical always gets trotted out to justify and rationalize things like what happened at Abu Ghraib, or torturing someone who is insane.

It bothers me deeply that Abu Ghraib always gets trotted out to try to smear the entire military.

Abu Ghraib was an example of a lousy platoon with even poorer leadership. Besides all other things, it was an on-going sex party. Oh, and we punished those involved, didn't we?

So Ty, the bomb is ticking. Assam knows how to stop it. He's sitting there. What's it gonna be, Ty. Yes...or...no.

You don't have time to sleep on it

What do you think about the fact that Bush wants to have it both ways? He orders torture -- pretend with me for the moment that waterboarding is torture, although apparently we have a difference of opinion about that -- but he's not willing to take the heat by saying that's what he's doing, so he soft-pedals and denies it.

This assumes Suskind's sources are telling the truth. Then again, I thought Cheny and Rumsfeld gave all the orders around the White House and Dumya just goes on vacation?

[SlaveNoMore]

taxwonk
Well then, I guess you're one of the people that CNN is rerunning their 9/11 coverage for. Enjoy the horror.

I saw those people jump and was 4 blocks away when the towers fell. Unlike you apparently, I don't need a reminder.

I'll probably be watching cartoon network.

Fitting, as lately you've been living in fantasyland.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
I still don't understand why the fact that Armitage leaked it to Novak first makes what Rove did OK....

Here we go again.....

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
It bothers me deeply that Abu Ghraib always gets trotted out to try to smear the entire military.

That would bother me, too, if I ever saw it.

Abu Ghraib was an example of a lousy platoon with even poorer leadership. Besides all other things, it was an on-going sex party. Oh, and we punished those involved, didn't we?

Some. But it's very clear that responsibility for that one lies somewhere north of the platoon-level, albeit not with the entire military. For one, there were decisions made by political appointees and civilians at DoD material to what happened.

So Ty, the bomb is ticking. Assam knows how to stop it. He's sitting there. What's it gonna be, Ty. Yes...or...no.

You don't have time to sleep on it.

The fact that people like you want to talk about this hypothetical instead of the way the instinct behind it gets twisted to justify all sorts of things -- and the fact that you are unwilling to call torture "torture" or to say that it's wrong -- is somewhere north of disturbing and south of sick.

In ten or twenty years, if we're lucky, this torture episode will be seen as one of the truly dark moments in the nation's legal history, like Dred Scott and Korematsu.

This assumes Suskind's sources are telling the truth. Then again, I thought Cheny and Rumsfeld gave all the orders around the White House and Dumya just goes on vacation?

Heh. Good one.

What are you denying here? That anyone has been waterboarded? Or that Bush knew about it?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I don't need a reminder.

Me neither.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Here we go again.....

You're going to duck the question again?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by taxwonk
I like pudding.

Good answer, it goes along with your cartoon network comment below. You advocate policies and capitulations that compromise the national security of our country and defend the "rights" of the agressors and then make ignorant comments like pudding and cartoon network to imply that the people here who are in favour of freedom and defending our nation's interests are not worthy of your serious high minded thought.

Better shorthand for your position would be:

"cut and run" or "appease now!"

At least it would be truly relevant.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Me neither.

you two can go get a beer when my commercials play. other people need reminders.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I saw those people jump and was 4 blocks away when the towers fell. Unlike you apparently, I don't need a reminder.

The irony is the left needs a reminder, as its apparent that they don't know that we are war. A war that threatens the survival of our country. to them its just a matter of diplomacy. Let Kofi Annan work it out......