Politics As Usual

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Once again, the figs are ripening on the tree while the Master seeks a return to his domain! If Bush hadn't given Rumsfeld the order, we would all be looking at a whole different ballgame!


(In other words, I think it's time that I just adopt your style.)

You win! You can take down your Kerry signs, divert the $$to Senate races. Bush'll be indicted by the Haugue come September- then plea. No way Cheney can take JFK, so he's a shoe-in. This prisoner scandal is so catching on with the public, who could have predicted.

Conf to Sidd- re you last post on FAshion

W-A-T-E-R- numbskull

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
if you find yourself arguing on the side of one-joke socks like Not Me and Club, it's time to pause and reflect.

Club may be a little misguided, but he's no one-joke sock.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
This prisoner scandal is so catching on with the public, who could have predicted.

Yeah, all the swing voters will be basing their votes not on the economy but on whether some iraqis had panties put on their heads or were scared by dogs.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Conf to Sidd- re you last post on FAshion

W-A-T-E-R- numbskull

Ah, you've moved from the moronically incomprehensible and off-point retort to the utterly incomprehensible cross-board retort.

But don't worry -- no rational observer would ever, ever conclude that you are obsessed with me. Really.

Did I beat you up a lot as a kid? If not, what brings about this shocking inferiority complex?

In any event, I think I'm no longer interested in feeding this particular stalker. Have at me, Hank. Masturbation appears to be your speed anyway. But do take note of my approach -- after all, the opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Club may be a little misguided, but he's no one-joke sock.

Correctemundo. Everyone knows that Slave is the one-joke sock.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Masturbation appears to be your speed anyway.

at long last- someone who understand me.....sigh.....

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Bottom line for me? Torture? Maybe not. But RUmmy saying its okay to do things you've been trained not to do? Probably. And that's not good. I fucking hate that guy.

But the reasons you hate Rummy have nothing to do with dogs in Iraqi prisons. You hate him for other reasons and so this just irritates you more.

This is a non-scandal. The people that hate GWB and Rummy will try to make it one, but it won't change anyone's minds. The swing voters are going to vote based on the "feel good" factor. If they feel good about their economic and security situation, they will vote for GWB. If they don't, they will vote for JFK. And they will determine the election because the base for the Reps and Dems aren't switching sides.

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
at long last- someone who understand me.....sigh.....

Hey hey hey - post your man-crushes on the FB, nature boy.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
But don't worry -- no rational observer would ever, ever conclude that you are obsessed with me. Really.

Pardon moi for butting in, but FWIW as an impartial observer, you appear as obsessed with him as he is with you. Now I don't frequent the FB much, and maybe if I did I might have a different opinion.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Not Me
This is a non-scandal. The people that hate GWB and Rummy will try to make it one, but it won't change anyone's minds.

When The Economist -- one of the earliest, loudest, and most consistent supporters of going to war in Iraq -- calls for Rumsfeld to resign or be fired -- I have to say that you are simply wrong.

This is not to mention, of course, that pictures of Arabs being tortured and humiliated by Americans kinda just might cause us to lose some of the Arab hearts and minds we were supposed to be winning.

If you're talking about the American electorate, you may have a point -- the country is so polarized that even if Rummy were carving Satanic pentagrams on Iraqi prisoners with a dull steak knife people like you would defend him and call anyone who didn't a traitor (this is the flip-side of your argument "you hate him anyway, so there").

On the other hand, public opinion polls regarding the Admin's handling of Iraq have been dropping steadily since March. Are you confident that the revelations about treatment of prisoners have absolutely nothing to do with that?

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Not Me
Yeah, all the swing voters will be basing their votes not on the economy but on whether some iraqis had panties put on their heads or were scared by dogs.

Apparently, the WH is a lot more worried about this than you are, and disagree with Hank's analysis that nothing you do to the bad guys can hurt the admin with the average voter. Its remarkable how fast they ran from this once it got some pub. Not the actions of committed, resolved folks who are convinced they are doing the right thing to preserve their nation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Jun22.html

"Memo on Interrogation Tactics is Disavowed" [by WH aides - and wil be rewritten -- announced that they will re-review everything that the DOJ OLC wrote on the subject.]

Also -- although I know this was discussed earlier -- there is also an article on the front page announcing the revised terrorism study. A number of sources, including The Economist had noted that the prior, favorable study was highly suspect because (for example) it did not count any terrorist incidents ocurring in Iraq.



S_A_M

[SlaveNoMore]

ironweed
Correctemundo. Everyone knows that Slave is the one-joke sock.

God save the Queen!

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
When The Economist -- one of the earliest, loudest, and most consistent supporters of going to war in Iraq -- calls for Rumsfeld to resign or be fired -- I have to say that you are simply wrong.

I don't think Rummy resigning or not will change anyone's vote. It won't even change Hello's vote and he hates Rummy. He is voting for GWB regardless of whether Rummy resigns or not.

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
This is not to mention, of course, that pictures of Arabs being tortured and humiliated by Americans kinda just might cause us to lose some of the Arab hearts and minds we were supposed to be winning.

Well it certainly was a set back on that front, but if Iraq gets up an running and there are jobs and a decent economy and a reduction in the terrorist incidents, it won't matter.

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
If you're talking about the American electorate, you may have a point -- the country is so polarized that even if Rummy were carving Satanic pentagrams on Iraqi prisoners with a dull steak knife people like you would defend him and call anyone who didn't a traitor (this is the flip-side of your argument "you hate him anyway, so there").

I am talking about the American electorate and I agree that we are polarized. There is a small segment that are true swing voters who will determine the outcome of the election and they could careless about Abu Gharaib, at least when it comes to casting a vote in an American election.

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
On the other hand, public opinion polls regarding the Admin's handling of Iraq have been dropping steadily since March. Are you confident that the revelations about treatment of prisoners have absolutely nothing to do with that?

I think that what upsets people are American soldiers being killed and maimed. It upsets me and it is effecting how I feel about the Admin's handling of Iraq.

You have to remember that large numbers of people in this country believe that Iraqi's attacked us on 9/11. They are wrong, of course, but a similar percentage of these people think that New Mexico is not part of the US. Sad, yes, but do they care what happens in Abu Gharaib? I doubt it. But OTOH, I am sure that they feel like me when you hear day after day after day about US soldiers dying and being maimed.

[SlaveNoMore]

Not Me
I don't think Rummy resigning or not will change anyone's vote. It won't even change Hello's vote and he hates Rummy. He is voting for GWB regardless of whether Rummy resigns or not.

The resignation of Rummy will cause some disaffected Republicans who may otherwise stay at home to get off the couch and vote.

In an election like this, its enough to turn the tide.

Now, for the interesting military stuff:

How we dismantled Sadr's militia

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Not the actions of committed, resolved folks who are convinced they are doing the right thing to preserve their nation.

Or perhaps people who are not so politically motivated that they cannot learn from their mistakes and admit they were wrong? If it were a Clinton administration, there would have been a cover-up and a denial.

This administration is facing an enemy unlike anything we have ever faced before. The war on terrorism is uncharted waters and I think the GWB admin is doing a good job. The middle east has to be fundamentally changed if there is any hope at all that we can put a lid on the terrorist threats. If you are so against bringing democracy to the middle east as a way to stop the terrorist breeding grounds, do you have a better plan? If so, what is it?

I am for regime change in Iraq, but I am also for alternative energy sources and phased in taxes on gasoline to reduce consumption as well as higher miles per gallon requirements.