Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck. - Page 161

ltl/fb · 10-12-2004, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Are you this bad at understanding reasoning in real life?

You make this same argument every time the abortion thing comes up, by simply ignoring, pointedly, the basic premise that you don't share but that drives the other side. Until you at least deal with it, you're like the guy at trial saying "Judge, my car won't even GO that fast!" - entertaining, but irrelevant.

If you are being accused of speeding, and you can prove that your car is incapable of going the speed they are saying you were going, how is that irrelevant?

This is very confusing, not least because I seem to be defending SD. I think really I'm not, but who knows.

ETA I don't litigate, so there may be some fancy litigation thingy that makes it so you can't argue innocence of kicking someone (battery) by pointing out you are a quadriplegic and were out of the country at the time of the injury.

Not Bob · 10-12-2004, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
I understood perfectly what Kerry meant, and thought he was pretty much right on.

Just like when Bush said the war might be unwinnable. I imagine you were defending that statement, too, right? I mean, they were saying the exact same thing.

(P.S. Already read the article. We are a literate bunch!)

I did agree with Bush's original statement on the Today Show that the war on terror may never end. Heck, he says many things that I agree with.

Shape Shifter · 10-12-2004, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob
I did agree with Bush's original statement on the Today Show that the war on terror may never end. Heck, he says many things that I agree with.

I believe that the presidency is probably a lot of hard work.

Hank Chinaski · 10-12-2004, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob
I did agree with Bush's original statement on the Today Show that the war on terror may never end. Heck, he says many things that I agree with.

and it appears JFK agreed with the statement also. Didn't stop him from trying to make it into an issue. Fuck him. I'd love if a NYT interview does him harm.

Hank Chinaski · 10-12-2004, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I believe that the presidency is probably a lot of hard work.

globally, or elsewhere also?

bilmore · 10-12-2004, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
If you are being accused of speeding, and you can prove that your car is incapable of going the speed they are saying you were going, how is that irrelevant?

Sorry. I think this is sort of an "in" joke amongst ex-prosecutor types. It's an argument made repeatedly by pro-se defendants, who simply make that assertion, and stop. If one brought in an expert to so testify ("you honor, I tested this man's Dodge Dart, and the fastest it goes it thirty"), yeah, it could work.

Shape Shifter · 10-12-2004, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
teens who get pregnant typically do so while listening to music with horns in it.

Or when they can't get their birth control prescription filled because the pharmacist doesn't want to suffer spiritual pain.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/10/12....ap/index.html

bilmore · 10-12-2004, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob
I did agree with Bush's original statement on the Today Show that the war on terror may never end. Heck, he says many things that I agree with.

Then we are both Fair People, and put these other partisan hacks to shame.

bilmore · 10-12-2004, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Or when they can't get their birth control prescription filled because the pharmacist doesn't want to suffer spiritual pain.

Wow. That can make you pregnant?

sebastian_dangerfield · 10-12-2004, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Are you this bad at understanding reasoning in real life?

You make this same argument every time the abortion thing comes up, by simply ignoring, pointedly, the basic premise that you don't share but that drives the other side. Until you at least deal with it, you're like the guy at trial saying "Judge, my car won't even GO that fast!" - entertaining, but irrelevant.

Your reasoning is flawed. You are saying there is no difference between your son being killed and a woman terminating her pregnancy at a reasonable juncture (I don't support the late term stuff when the fetus is viable and almost ready to be born... go ahead, make the stupid slippery slope argument which presumes humans cannot only operate in absolutes).

And you have absolutely no regard for the chick holding the fetus. Its like her life doesn't matter. What happens to her is at worst irrelevant and at best secondary in importance. And pardon me, but to hear it from a man is galling. You don't - and never will - understand a thimble's worth ofb what she's going through. Yet you disregard her. Mostly because you need to, since she doesn't neatly fit into your "moral" argument.

The truth is abortion is a lamentable procedure which needs to be legal. You can't turn the clock back to a society where women are slaves to their biology, and such moves certainly should not be made by any body comprised mostly of old rich males. If you insist on seeing this debate in stupid absolutes, as your analogy about your son suggests, I might as well argue to the brick wall. You're like the judge who only learns when the appellate court whacks him time and time again.

We humans, we are capable of compromise, even in highly charged issues like this. The answer is in the middle. If you can't deal with that, well the debate is pointless.

Tyrone Slothrop · 10-12-2004, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Sorry. I think this is sort of an "in" joke amongst ex-prosecutor types. It's an argument made repeatedly by pro-se defendants, who simply make that assertion, and stop. If one brought in an expert to so testify ("you honor, I tested this man's Dodge Dart, and the fastest it goes it thirty"), yeah, it could work.

A friend of my uncle is an engineer who was ticketed for speeding up a grade on I-90 in Idaho in an old car carrying a load of metal. Representing himself, he presented a developed argument that it was physically impossible for his car's engine to propel that load that quickly, and that the cop must have been pointing his radar gun at a car heading downhill on the other side of the road. A bored judge couldn't care less.

Shape Shifter · 10-12-2004, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Wow. That can make you pregnant?

With the right music, sure. Aloha recommends side one of Led Zeppelin IV.

SlaveNoMore · 10-12-2004, 05:50 PM

Quote:

bilmore
I understood perfectly what Kerry meant, and thought he was pretty much right on.

Yes, terrorists are a nuisance, like prostitution and organized crime.

Now, perhaps if he defined "nuisance" as murder, rape and arson, then - perhaps - he could be forgiven for merely having a tin ear.

But to suggest that terrorism is on par with prostitution? Why, SAM why?

dtb · 10-12-2004, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
I'm pro-choice, and know many principled people who are not. So, in other words, I agree with you that SD should stop over-simplifying and stereotyping.

On the other hand, pot, kettle. Your view that Repubs would all gleefully move into the ghetto while Dems are all millionaires living in gated communities is beyond tiresome.

And what's more, it's not "my friends", but in fact responses culled from actual people I don't even know! (I know that's hard to imagine-- that others may have a different view that isn't easily dismissed by calling it a small and insignificant sample -- and that must really upset some people's world views, so it's easier to dismiss it as "DTB's friends". Not even close.)

Third trimester abortions (involuntary ones, anyway) are a miniscule fraction of one percent of the abortions that happen in this country.

To who/whatever dismissed the documented views expressed in my earlier post: why don't you just go shoot a healthcare provider who performs abortions -- I'm betting it'll make you feel better.

(Sidd, this isn't a response to you -- but to the thing that you were responding to. Didn't feel like scrolling back.)

sgtclub · 10-12-2004, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
And you have absolutely no regard for the chick holding the fetus. Its like her life doesn't matter. What happens to her is at worst irrelevant and at best secondary in importance. And pardon me, but to hear it from a man is galling. You don't - and never will - understand a thimble's worth ofb what she's going through. Yet you disregard her. Mostly because you need to, since she doesn't neatly fit into your "moral" argument.

I don't care to take a position on the substantive issue, but you act as thought the woman played no part in the process. Poor little woman, she just up and got herself pregnant. Sorry, I can't buy in to that.