A Forum for Grinches and Ho-Ho-Hoes

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by bilmore


And Uday was going to depose Saddam just that next week!

If we knew that, intervention would have been even more appropriate.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I just don't buy this line. An intracompany affair has what to do with business ethics? And why disclose it? For the minimal gain in public confidence? This investor does not think this means a damn thing when it comes to ethics in contracting.

I've seen first hand several executives of public companies get canned (sorry, be asked to resign). Even in cases of fraud, the public disclosure says something like "CEO resigned today. New CEO, who has a world of experience in [insert exactly what company needs right now] was appointed [interim] successor. Company reaffirms guidance for quarter and year."

This reaks of a broken down negotiation and setting of the stage for litigation. Either that, or bad lawyering.

Look, I don't fucking care about Stonecipher. He's fucking rich as hell and doesn't need to work any more. Let's get down to what's important to me.

I'm self-employed. Does that mean I can't oss one off at all, any more? Or just that I can't do it at the office?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by bilmore
All just accidents of timing, weren't they?

No one said that, but as usual you would prefer to argue with straw men, so don't let me stop you.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by taxwonk


I'm self-employed. Does that mean I can't oss one off at all, any more? Or just that I can't do it at the office?

Just don't email yourself, describing in excruciating detail how you're going to beat it.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
No one said that . . .

Isn't that exactly the thrust of what you and Weed are saying? "Stop crowing about it - it wasn't Bush!" How does that differ, aside from degrees?

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Well us as the conservatives are not alone. Newsweek, Time and the NYT seem to be suffering from the same lack of knowledge.

ETA: And I guess it was Tip O'neil standing up to communism in South and Central America.

Damn that liberal media !

As to Central America, I don't think Reagan apologists should want to rehash the whole Contra thing.

As to South America - cite, please.

[SlaveNoMore]

bilmore
In two years, listen for a Kennedy speech about how the Democrats brought democracy to the ME through their unflagging supervision of that damn Bush nazi.

When he brags about bringing democracy to MA and VT, I'll be even more impressed.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Well us as the conservatives are not alone. Newsweek, Time and the NYT seem to be suffering from the same lack of knowledge.

If Rich Lowry found a couple words in them to quote, they must be fully on board with his entire argument. Sure, that follows.

As you may know, there is much debate going on right now about the extent to which Bush can take credit for what's happening in Lebanon. I've already posted here about what I think. I respect many of the people with whom I disagree, but only because they seem to have thought about the issue and can try to explain what we've done that might be influencing events there. I don't think the fact that Iraq held elections influenced Lebanon much at all, and I haven't seen any reporting from Lebanon suggesting otherwise. Instead, most of the people asserting that the good things happening in Lebanon are the direct result of our Iraq policy don't speak Arabic or French, don't seem to know much about Lebanon, and probably couldn't have told you much about the country before Newsweek et al. started running photos of pretty Lebanese chicks. IMHO, Ukraine and Arabic TV were more significant influences.

Equating Lebanon and Iraq requires that you ignore that most of the Arab world disapproves of our occupation of Iraq in the same way that they disapprove of Syria's occupation of Lebanon. Perhaps it took hubris (something he's not short of) for Bush to say that the Syrian troops had to leave Lebanon for there to be free elections, but more likely it was a lack of self-awareness.

ETA: And I guess it was Tip O'neil standing up to communism in South and Central America.

Yes, as a matter of fact Democrats did stand up to communism in Central America and around the world. The military build-up in the 1980s started under Carter, for example. Obviously there were things that Reagan did with which Democrats disagreed, but you are off in La La Land if you want to pretend that Democrats didn't give a shit about the Cold War. Don't bring that shit here, 'cause Ironweed or someone will do a Ben Wallace on it.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by bilmore
Isn't that exactly the thrust of what you and Weed are saying? "Stop crowing about it - it wasn't Bush!" How does that differ, aside from degrees?

So there are only two causes for anything that happens in the world: Bush and happenstance? Oh, and Satan makes three.

[bilmore]

If nothing else, I like this new kind of war where the various sides fight to display the best-looking women they can find up on their shoulders. Following all the anti-Syrian cuties yesterday, now we're seeing the pro-Syrian ones:

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
So there are only two causes for anything that happens in the world: Bush and happenstance? Oh, and Satan makes three.

"Degrees". Remember how I included that word?

Am I saying here that the entire set of changes and happenings are directly to the credit of Bush? That there's a direct correlation? That everything good that's happening is his doings alone?

Nope. I'm saying that what he has accomplished has, obviously, directly changed Iraq and Afghanistan, and the tone that's now being set across the ME and Europe and maybe the world seems to be fostering a movement towards things that we like.

Remember a month or so ago, me saying that I was optimistic that Iraq elections would actually be held, successfully, and that that event would presage a sea change throughout places that needed a sea change? Well, I'm a whole lot more optimistic now than I was then. At that time, you indicated that you would like to believe that that would happen, but were still pessimistic. Have you seen any reason to change that? Can you see your way to give Bush ANY of the credit for what's going on? If so, I sure haven't seen it. So, if someone here is holding an absolute position, I doubt it's me.

(P.S.. "Satan"? Choke that shotgun, son.)

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by bilmore
"Degrees". Remember how I included that word?

Am I saying here that the entire set of changes and happenings are directly to the credit of Bush? That there's a direct correlation? That everything good that's happening is his doings alone?

Nope.

Turn in your Republican Party membership card, you traitor. Why, oh why do you people hate freedom so much?

Remember a month or so ago, me saying that I was optimistic that Iraq elections would actually be held, successfully, and that that event would presage a sea change throughout places that needed a sea change? Well, I'm a whole lot more optimistic now than I was then. At that time, you indicated that you would like to believe that that would happen, but were still pessimistic. Have you seen any reason to change that? Can you see your way to give Bush ANY of the credit for what's going on? If so, I sure haven't seen it. So, if someone here is holding an absolute position, I doubt it's me.

I'm not that sure that much of anything is going on that wasn't going on before. The Lebanese protests in Martyr's Square are the response to perceived Syrian involvement in the assassination of a well-liked political figure, and were dwarfed today by the counterprotest called on a day's notice. The Syrian announcement that they would withdraw to the Beka Valley was accompanied by a little-noticed qualifier that they would do so only as long as it took to establish a new government in Beirut. Given the virtually unanimous hatred of Bush in the ME, it's hard to see why anyone there would be motivated to follow his guidance in much of anything.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Having spent years not giving a shit about democracy overseas, you have a bunch of conservatives who are astonished to learn that dozens of people protested the other day in Egypt, .

Didn't its President change some stuff just recently?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by taxwonk
I'm self-employed. Does that mean I can't oss one off at all, any more? Or just that I can't do it at the office?

You know what- just email me my copy of my returns. I don't need a hard copy after all.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Yes, as a matter of fact Democrats did stand up to communism in Central America and around the world. The military build-up in the 1980s started under Carter, for example. Obviously there were things that Reagan did with which Democrats disagreed, but you are off in La La Land if you want to pretend that Democrats didn't give a shit about the Cold War. Don't bring that shit here, 'cause Ironweed or someone will do a Ben Wallace on it.

See, e.g, Charlie Wilson.

ETA: "Wilson claims he once convinced the Afghan fighters that, 'Kill the Commie Cocksuckers' was the famous Texas battle cry from the Alamo." Molly Ivins

Incidently, I love being from Texas.