A disgusting vat of filth that no self-respecting intelligent person would wade into. - Page 314

Penske_Account · 01-31-2007, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
I'm not sure if you are being facetious here. I think Sheehan has, in some respects, experienced the "horror" of war in losing her son. And there are plenty of far right pundits who have said things about her that could be called "demonizing" and personally insulting. People will say she "asks for it" (or that she is somehow a celebrity now so deserves less respect - I think that was Coultor's theory), whatever, but she is still picked apart personally. And it's no fun watching some grieving mother ridiculed left and right, just like it's no fun to hear about a legless vet being spat upon by some Spicoli groupie.

I guess perhaps I am looking at it through a tainted lens, which is, if I joined the military, it would be because I believed in what it does. If like Casey Sheehan, near the end of my tour of duty, I re-enlisted, knowing that my unit would be sent to a war in Iraq, it would be at least in part be predicated on believing in that mission and knowing and accepting the risk of loss of life in furtherance of that mission. If, after I was dead, my mom, dad, wife, and/or kids, went to the length of protest of the mission I believed in (and used my death in carrying out that mission as an emtional backdrop for that protest), I would, from the grave, consider that a disrespect of an honourable and honest choice I had made and my beliefs in making them.

Obviously, I can't speak for Casey Sheehan, but it seems like he made an honourable (regardless of one's position on the War) and informed choice about his service and to me (and others) it seems like she is exploiting his death and memory, in disregard and disrespect of his choice, to further an partisan political agenda and her own 15,000 minutes of fame. And let's not kid ourselves, she is being funded and exploited by a partisan billioniare and his looney tune treasonous organization and as part of that exploitation, a cult of fame surrounding St. Sheehan of Crawford has developed, and psychology being what it is, it seems like she is digging her beatification.

Penske_Account · 01-31-2007, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Yes. And I agree with you.

S_A_M

P.S. At least Penske has the grace to feel a bit of shame, although he will never admit it.

[etd-:blush:]

Adder · 01-31-2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
If like Casey Sheehan, near the end of my tour of duty, I re-enlisted, knowing that my unit would be sent to a war in Iraq, it would be at least in part be predicated on believing in that mission and knowing and accepting the risk of loss of life in furtherance of that mission.

I know a handful (yes, I know it is anecdotal) of people serving in the military who have seen time in (or over) Iraq. You should not infer that this means that they believe in the mission, or in how the mission is being adminstered. They do it because it is their duty.

Hank Chinaski · 01-31-2007, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Adder
I know a handful (yes, I know it is anecdotal) of people serving in the military who have seen time in (or over) Iraq. You should not infer that this means that they believe in the mission, or in how the mission is being adminstered. They do it because it is their duty.

did they re-enlist knowing they would go there?

Sidd Finch · 01-31-2007, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore

And he would probably know that better than either of us - and he'd most likely be right.

He's right to threaten people for protesting the war? Got it.

It amazes me that people like you actually claim to like this country.

Penske_Account · 01-31-2007, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Adder
I know a handful (yes, I know it is anecdotal) of people serving in the military who have seen time in (or over) Iraq. You should not infer that this means that they believe in the mission, or in how the mission is being adminstered. They do it because it is their duty.

did they re-enlist knowing they would go there?

eta: Merde! STP!!

Penske_Account · 01-31-2007, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch

It amazes me that people like you actually claim to like this country.

New thread title?

Sidd Finch · 01-31-2007, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
maybe. but the point is that you guys have been partially in power for 2 weeks and here you are trying to defend people you never tried to defend before- your crazies. Certainly you admit it possible that there were people at the anti-war rally who might spit at a wounded vet feet, don't you?

Ty spend the evening defending on the basis of target for the spit- this morning, clear headed, he realized that was no excuse so he moves into attacking the man w/o a leg.

You're a trial guy- wouldn't it have been wiser just to pass on it all, and chalk it up to loonies?

I do admit it's possible that someone spit at a vet. I've personally seen it happen at a protest rally -- right in the face. And the guy was being very calm and rational. Pity that no one saw who actually did the spitting; I'd have liked to take a swing at him too.

That said, I highly doubt that it happened here, given what Ty posted. And, even if it did -- I hardly doubt that Sparling was innocent. Did he deserve to be spit at? I don't know -- depends on whether he was just heckling, or whether he was calling people terrorists and threatening them.

That I think he's a grandstanding asshole doesn't mean that I'm defending people who spit on him. It just doesn't arouse a lot of ire, even if it happened.

Finally, I would say that Ty won that argument. You're a trial lawyer -- would you want Sparling as your star witness in this one?

Sidd Finch · 01-31-2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Oh, fuck you. These animals that you choose to defend hang in effigy every GOP member that ever walked the face of the earth. That is, when they aren't cheering the name of John Walker Lindh or spray painting the Capitol building.

Babaganoush last night?

Sidd Finch · 01-31-2007, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ironweed
Way too subtle for this crowd.

But you managed to get it, despite having what I understand to be a very difficult evening.

Adder · 01-31-2007, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
did they re-enlist knowing they would go there?

Yes.

taxwonk · 01-31-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I'm skeptical, people don't become suspects for no reason. I imagine this german guy was guilty of something....

When did you start hanging out with Ed Meese?

Penske_Account · 01-31-2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Adder
Yes.

Where this goes off the rails is, if they had the beliefs of Cindy Sheehan or even lesser liberals (i.e. this is not a war about national defense), then they would not think it was their duty to re-enlist, and more likely think that it was their duty to get out and then speak out. What duty were they subscribing too?

Penske_Account · 01-31-2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
When did you start hanging out with Ed Meese?

Your prise is in the mail.

SlaveNoMore · 01-31-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Secret_Agent_Man
No, Adder, Slave makes a good point.

And if Cindy Sheehan had ever experienced the horror of war. I'm sure the Right would have enough respect to avoid demonizing and personally insulting her, even though they disagree with her.

S_A_M

One - spitting at someone and insulting them are hardly apples and apples.

Second, if you mean Kerry, he made his own bed when he tossed his medals and threw his comrade-in-arms - the murderers - under the bus. Why shouldn't those that he mocked mock him in return?

Third, if you mean Cleland, yes - the critcism of his military record (i.e. he blew himself up) was deplorable and I noted as much at the time.