Politics: Onward from New Hampshire

[Dave]

So for no valid reason, I'm obsessed by this story:

Sixty-four suspected mercenaries allegedly hired to overthrow the government of oil-rich Equatorial Guinea will face charges in Zimbabwe, along with their three-man flight crew, the attorney general said Thursday.

Perhaps it's because of the tantalizing prospect of lucre. How hard can it be to topple the gov't of Equitorial Guniea? And why hasn't ExxonShellMobilBPTexaco done so already?

The lawyer in me wants to know just how Mugabe is going to trump up the charges to get these people the death penalty. Hell, they weren't interesting in overthrowing him now, were they?

[Dave]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Can we just drop the "war on terrorism" metaphor? I mean, obviously we won't, but it just doesn't fit. The "war/crime" dichotomy doesn't work. Obviously we are in a new paradigm that has elements of both. If not, we would be invading Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, and no one thinks that's a good idea. The campaign against terrorism is going to look an awful lot like a war sometimes, and an awful lot like a criminal investigation at others. It's a brave new world.

Let's kick it up a notch for the kids. Taking On Terrorism! Smackdown in the Middle East! Al Qaeda Gets Ass Kickda!

There's got to be a workable slogan in there somewhere.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Why anyone believes them now is beyond me. But maybe congressional Republicans won't want to be burned again.

• The government's top expert on Medicare costs was warned that he would be fired if he told key lawmakers about a series of Bush administration cost estimates that could have torpedoed congressional passage of the White House-backed Medicare prescription-drug plan.
  
  When the House of Representatives passed the controversial benefit by five votes last November, the White House was embracing an estimate by the Congressional Budget Office that it would cost $395 billion in the first 10 years. But for months the administration's own analysts in the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services had concluded repeatedly that the drug benefit could cost upward of $100 billion more than that.
  
  Withholding the higher cost projections was important because the White House was facing a revolt from 13 conservative House Republicans who'd vowed to vote against the Medicare drug bill if it cost more than $400 billion.

linky

eta:

"Note that the administration's previous declarations that they learned of the higher estimates only after the bill was passed are now 'inoperative.'" -- Brad DeLong.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Not Me
Mass legislature approves a constitutional amendment with a one man-one woman definition of marriage but allows civil unions for gays.

Think about how far we've come how quickly when it's a bad day because the Massachusetts legislature is amending its constitution to forbid gay marriage but allow civil unions.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Think about how far we've come how quickly when it's a bad day because the Massachusetts legislature is amending its constitution to forbid gay marriage but allow civil unions.

Yes, I think this is a rather quick turn about on a social issue for our country.

I only wish that we could make such rapid progress on women's equality issues. I think the problem is that there is too much focus on abortion and welfare and not enough focus on economic empowerment of women.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Not Me
I only wish that we could make such rapid progress on women's equality issues. I think the problem is that there is too much focus on abortion and welfare and not enough focus on economic empowerment of women.

Whom do you think should do what?

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Whom do you think should do what?

Well I like this question, but I'm not Not_Me, so hopefully she (he he he) answers too.

I'd hope that the courts would allow same-sex schools from K through 12 as options for public schools systems, and then I'd hope that school systems would open up hard core math/science/techonogy schools for little girls and young women.

Other than education (which suffers from legacy discriminatory societal attitudes), I don't believe women really are subject to much discrimination in comparison to just about any other group. But look around these boards and you'll see the effects that educational discrimination has had on women. All the chicks give themselves names like Bambi and post on the fashion board about how to give a better blow job. And, it seems, *some* people trust, e.g., uncy Atticus, to do the hard thinking.

Hell(uh oh)o

PS Happy Friday!!!

ET delete a gratuitous profanity

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
Whom do you think should do what?

I think government has done all it can at this point and any more government regulation of this area will only provoke resentment and actually harm the cause. The only exception I can make to that is the ERA. It is a shame that this amendment was never passed as I think it would have been a symbolic victory.

I think the onus is on women now to make equality happen. The problem is that our culture overvalues youth and beauty, particularly in women. And we women as a group have been too accepting of this and even complicit in it. The reasons why we have undermined our own progress are complex and are both cultural and biological in origin.

But men are not without blame. The fact that you all insist on pegging me as male proves my point to me. You reject the idea that someone as forceful and aggressive as I am could be female.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
I'd hope that the courts would allow same-sex schools from K through 12 as options for public schools systems

Same sex schools are a cop out. It just reinforces the idea that women are too weak to compete.

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
and then I'd hope that school systems would open up hard core math/science/techonogy schools for little girls and young women.

Why? Why can't the women go take the hard core subjects at coed schools? I did and graduated at the top of my class.

Women shunned these hard core classes. I often found myself one of a handful of women in the math and physics classes I took. No one forced women to choose art history or communications over physics. They chose that themselves.

The reasons they chose that is because for some, they don't want to look smarter than the guys because this is scary to men. I have scared away several men because of my intelligence. Yes, I agree, good riddance, but after it happens often enough, you see why women might want to shun the hardcore subjects because of how scary that is to men to be with a woman who is smarter than they are.

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Other than education (which suffers from legacy discriminatory societal attitudes), I don't believe women really are subject to much discrimination in comparison to just about any other group.

Just the opposite is true. Academia is the most egalitarian it gets. The business world is where things are so uneven. I have seen women promoted specifically because they were dumb women and the goal was to make an example out of a stupid women. Then they could say how they tried to promote the women but look what happened when we did!

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
But look around these boards and you'll see the effects that educational discrimination has had on women. All the chicks give themselves names like Bambi and post on the fashion board about how to give a better blow job. And, it seems, *some* people trust, e.g., uncy Atticus, to do the hard thinking.

It isn't educational discrimination that is to blame (although it is discrimination of another sort). At least in my exerience, I was the least discriminated against in academia.

Look at what happens when you do have an opinionated bright woman post on a board. You all call her a man. And if you were to believe I was female, you would immediately conclude I must be an ugly woman to spend time posting here. You would assume that if I would choose to talk politics over say, hanging out with my boyfriend or going shopping, it must be because I have no other choice since I must be ugly. That theme has been expounded upon here numerous times.

[Not Me]

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/sto...MPLATE=DEFAULT

The state of Minnesota is asking federal permission to bar people from using food stamps to buy candy bars, soda and other junk food.

If the U.S. Department of Agriculture approves, Minnesota would be the first state to impose such restrictions.

The change would still need the approval of the Legislature, where some anti-poverty activists call it a mean-spirited intrusion into the cupboards of the poor.

Colleen Moriarty, executive director of Hunger Solutions, which represents Minnesota food banks, said it would be better to simply try to educate food stamp recipients about nutrition.

"I think it's a bad idea to regulate people instead of empowering them," she said.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Not Me
Same sex schools are a cop out. It just reinforces the idea that women are too weak to compete.

Why? Why can't the women go take the hard core subjects at coed schools? I did and graduated at the top of my class.

Women shunned these hard core classes. I often found myself one of a handful of women in the math and physics classes I took. No one forced women to choose art history or communications over physics. They chose that themselves.

The reasons they chose that is because for some, they don't want to look smarter than the guys because this is scary to men. I have scared away several men because of my intelligence. Yes, I agree, good riddance, but after it happens often enough, you see why women might want to shun the hardcore subjects because of how scary that is to men to be with a woman who is smarter than they are.

I'd leave the coed schools as an option, including a "hard core" coed school. But you still have male and female students, teachers, administrators and parents who give the kindergarden girls Barbie Dolls and the kindergarden boys legos. And, as a parent of a little girl, you can't control how they will be treated by aggressive little boys blah blah blah. You can see what I'm saying, but basically, there is a reason I distinguished for K-12. I'd love to see more women with your educational background. But, just like desegration bussing etc..., what we've done so far just hasn't seemed to help.

Originally posted by Not Me

Just the opposite is true. Academia is the most egalitarian it gets. The business world is where things are so uneven. I have seen women promoted specifically because they were dumb women and the goal was to make an example out of a stupid women. Then they could say how they tried to promote the women but look what happened when we did!

It isn't educational discrimination that is to blame (although it is discrimination of another sort). At least in my exerience, I was the least discriminated against in academia.

Did you go to public grade schools? If so, good God, what the hell are you talking aobut? They've had studies on this stuff showing who gets called on etc....

As adults though, I really don't buy the discrimination thing these days, as women are advancing everywhere in the world (exceptions, many exceptions, apply). But I can't imagine being more stereotyped than a black male in this society, or having more people assume success is the result of an artificial boost etc.... Christ, I (I suspect most of us) have no idea how anybody actually does make it out of the northern ghettoes, what with the huge obstacles they have to overcome. And, given the government and attitudes that have created and perpetuated the concentrated poverty along racial lines, I'd say its not women who, as a group, face the greatest hurdles in adult life.

Originally posted by Not Me

Look at what happens when you do have an opinionated bright woman post on a board. You all call her a man. And if you were to believe I was female, you would immediately conclude I must be an ugly woman to spend time posting here. You would assume that if I would choose to talk politics over say, hanging out with my boyfriend or going shopping, it must be because I have no other choice since I must be ugly. That theme has been expounded upon here numerous times.

Point taken.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
As adults though, I really don't buy the discrimination thing these days, as women are advancing everywhere in the world (exceptions, many exceptions, apply). But I can't imagine being more stereotyped than a black male in this society, or having more people assume success is the result of an artificial boost etc.... Christ, I (I suspect most of us) have no idea how anybody actually does make it out of the northern ghettoes, what with the huge obstacles they have to overcome. And, given the government and attitudes that have created and perpetuated the concentrated poverty along racial lines, I'd say its not women who, as a group, face the greatest hurdles in adult life.

Agree. Especially if they got the big boobies!!

[dtb]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Its all just so sad. Doesn't everybody like Spain?

Yeah! Remember it was SPAIN that was cited as having more books translated in a year than in the history of all Arab countries combined! Let's get back to that discussion.


(So maybe that wasn't exactly it -- but I'm sure you all know what I'm referring to.)

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
All the chicks give themselves names like Bambi and post on the fashion board about how to give a better blow job. And, it seems, *some* people trust, e.g., uncy Atticus, to do the hard thinking.

This is so asinine that I don't even know where to begin. There are many smart, educated women who avoid posting on this board because they don't find fun in arguing with complete strangers about political topics (despite the fact that they even might - gasp - know a lot about those subjects) because they do not find it fun to argue ad nauseum with people about things that no one will change their minds on. I don't get into a ton of political debates IRL either, but that does not mean I lack opinions.

People, even smart people, are allowed to vary in their willingness to enter political debates with total strangers that they could care less about. Tell me that RT or BRC or dtb or leagl or e/o or any number of other female posters here come off as uneducated dingbats. And I'll let you in on a little secret about how some of the men sound...

And, just so you have your facts straight next time you want to post something inane about the FB, the women there do not give tips about giving a better blow job. Thurgreed is the expert on that count (though I assume his expertise is not based on experience giving them).

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
This is so asinine that I don't even know where to begin. There are many smart, educated women who avoid posting on this board because they don't find fun in arguing with complete strangers about political topics (despite the fact that they even might - gasp - know a lot about those subjects) because they do not find it fun to argue ad nauseum with people about things that no one will change their minds on.

Perfect example of what I'm talkin about. Uncy Atticus, you around to splain over-the-top sarcasm to one of da honeys?

Come on NCS, I absolutely know I've seen you catch this stuff every other time.