Posting Towards Gomorrah

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Is that what his issue was? I thought he was suggesting that referring to "medians" is somehow deceptive, apart from the failure to talk about (more politically pleasing) means.

Well now Ty, to be honest the chart being limited to the last 6 years is making a political point. I'm sure what the chart shows started 20, if not 30 years ago.

Airline unions are being forced to take pay cuts. Factory workers entering the jobs that do open are not being offered the prior juicy union wages. Even those people in $30 per hour union factory jobs are facing massive cuts. Delphi entered bankruptcy to be able to void its union contracts. Unskilled assembly line workers are being paid $30 per hour, and Delphi's competition is getting the same work for 3 or 4 bucks an hour in Mexico. It's not a matter of corporate greed, its survival.

In my mind it all started once American workers stopped "buying American." It started with cars- but once Claifornia electronics workers decided a Toyota was a good purchase it becomes inevitable that they will eventually be fucked themselves.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Odd -- I don't get the Netflix ad at all.

The link is to Merriam-Webster's on-line dictionary, at http://www.webster.com/. Definition 2a is:

• a value in an ordered set of values below and above which there is an equal number of values or which is the arithmetic mean of the two middle values if there is no one middle number

To make it concrete, if you have five students in a class with test scores of 100, 76, 75, 74, and 70, the mean score is 79, but the median is 75.

what about the unemployed. does your chart count them?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Well now Ty, to be honest the chart being limited to the last 6 years is making a political point.

It's your hometown newspaper. I didn't go back to see what they said in connection with the chart.

I'm sure what the chart shows started 20, if not 30 years ago.

Did you read what I said in response to you about this point? I can't tell whether you didn't bother to read my prior post or whether you're confused.

Airline unions are being forced to take pay cuts. Factory workers entering the jobs that do open are not being offered the prior juicy union wages. Even those people in $30 per hour union factory jobs are facing massive cuts. Delphi entered bankruptcy to be able to void its union contracts. Unskilled assembly line workers are being paid $30 per hour, and Delphi's competition is getting the same work for 3 or 4 bucks an hour in Mexico. It's not a matter of corporate greed, its survival.

OK. Do you think our government has anything to do with any of this? I submit that the fundamental trend has been around for a while, but that GOP policies are exacerbating the effects on the median worker.

In my mind it all started once American workers stopped "buying American." It started with cars- but once Claifornia electronics workers decided a Toyota was a good purchase it becomes inevitable that they will eventually be fucked themselves.

Burger is going to point out that American car makers, e.g., where subsidized by workers who bought American even if the other cars were better, and that this meant that they didn't need to make better cars.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
what about the unemployed. does your chart count them?

You can find the answer to that as easily as I can.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
It's your hometown newspaper. I didn't go back to see what they said in connection with the chart.

My hometown newspaper has stories about the city commission meetings and people getting tickets for not cutting their yards. It wouldn't have that chart- color is reserved for kids or pets.

Did you read what I said in response to you about this point? I can't tell whether you didn't bother to read my last post or whether you're confused.

I know. but even the NYT will "remind" people of prior facts.

OK. Do you think our government has anything to do with any of this? I submit that the fundamental trend has been around for a while, but that GOP policies are exacerbating the effects on the median worker.

Cheney's oil profits?

Burger is going to point out that American car makers, e.g., where subsidized by workers who bought American even if the other cars were better, and that this meant that they didn't need to make better cars.

no shit, although people who actually worked in those factories tell stories that point out that the workers very much at fault for the quality. Vicious circle.

I was deposing a guy who had moved his production to Mexico from fresno. We're going over his financials- and there's a line item: $1500 Xmas bonus

Now this was a 200 worker factory. i asked if that were "per worker." nope $1500 overall.

It is hard to compete with that and pay people those prior union wages. Maybe it's NAFTA or something to blame. I. Don't. Know.

but to blame this on bush is equivalent to blaming him for causing Global warming (such as it is).

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
You can find the answer to that as easily as I can.

okay. I say it does. the tech bubble and resultant loss of phony jobs causes everytihng shown in your chart. Next issue.


Hank Chinaski
298-11

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
My hometown newspaper has stories about the city commission meetings and people getting tickets for not cutting their yards. It wouldn't have that chart- color is reserved for kids or pets.

As I said when I posted it, the graph is from the Detroit Free Press. The story it accompanied, with links to the graph, is here. I called it your hometown newspaper because -- as you have pointed out before -- you are from Detroit and all.

I know. but even the NYT will "remind" people of prior facts.

You seemed to think I disagreed with you, and you didn't respond to what I actually said.

Cheney's oil profits?

Not my first guess, but if you insist.

no shit, although people who actually worked in those factories tell stories that point out that the workers very much at fault for the quality. Vicious circle.

I was deposing a guy who had moved his production to Mexico from fresno. We're going over his financials- and there's a line item: $1500 Xmas bonus

Now this was a 200 worker factory. i asked if that were "per worker." nope $1500 overall.

It is hard to compete with that and pay people those prior union wages. Maybe it's NAFTA or something to blame. I. Don't. Know.

but to blame this on bush is equivalent to blaming him for causing Global warming (such as it is).

I do not blame Bush for the crappy Xmas bonuses in that guy's Mexican factory. Do you deny that the wealthy have benefited more from his policies than the median worker?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
okay. I say it does. the tech bubble and resultant loss of phony jobs causes everytihng shown in your chart. Next issue.

You don't have to be a troll.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop



I do not blame Bush for the crappy Xmas bonuses in that guy's Mexican factory. Do you deny that the wealthy have benefited more from his policies than the median worker?

I don't know. as I pointed out, the trend you show was going to occur regardless of his policies. do you mean because he cut my taxes at the same time jobs are going to Mexico- that policy? okay.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Odd -- I don't get the Netflix ad at all.

The link is to Merriam-Webster's on-line dictionary, at http://www.webster.com/. Definition 2a is:

• a value in an ordered set of values below and above which there is an equal number of values or which is the arithmetic mean of the two middle values if there is no one middle number

To make it concrete, if you have five students in a class with test scores of 100, 76, 75, 74, and 70, the mean score is 79, but the median is 75.

[pssst! Ty, listen up]
I was joking.
[\psst! Ty, listen up]

[Replaced_Texan]

Did any of ya'll hear this interview this morning on NPR with Evan Kohlman? It's about an American guy who showed up on an Al Qaeda video recently trying to recruit other Americans to convert to Islam and join up the cause. Kohlman basically gave a background on this guy. Raised Christian to a Christian mother and a formerly Jewish father on a goat farm in Fresno, alarmed his parents with too much heavy metal music, so sent to live with Grandma in LA. Grandma had internet access, and the guy trolls the web and ends up becoming fascinated with Fundamentalist Islam. Kohlman says this guy isn't particularly charismatic, so it's unlikely that he'll do much in the way of recruiting, but it's possible that there are others out there like him. He apparently was entirely brought into Islam and Al Qaeda while he was living in the US.

He sorta sounds a lot like John Walker Lindh. No real cultural or ethnic reason that he should be drawn into Al Qaeda, but somehow he is. I sorta got the impression listening to the radio that this guy could have easily been those assholes from Columbine High School if they hadn't ended up shooting themselves. American al Qaeda (that I've heard of) seem different than the homegrown terrorist types in the UK. These guys seem like lost loners looking for a way to be shocking.

Anyhow, I thought that the interview was interesting.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
[pssst! Ty, listen up]
I was joking.
[\psst! Ty, listen up]

Sorry. Spanky has that effect on me sometimes.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Did any of ya'll hear this interview this morning on NPR with Evan Kohlman? It's about an American guy who showed up on an Al Qaeda video recently trying to recruit other Americans to convert to Islam and join up the cause. Kohlman basically gave a background on this guy. Raised Christian to a Christian mother and a formerly Jewish father on a goat farm in Fresno, alarmed his parents with too much heavy metal music, so sent to live with Grandma in LA. Grandma had internet access, and the guy trolls the web and ends up becoming fascinated with Fundamentalist Islam. Kohlman says this guy isn't particularly charismatic, so it's unlikely that he'll do much in the way of recruiting, but it's possible that there are others out there like him. He apparently was entirely brought into Islam and Al Qaeda while he was living in the US.

He sorta sounds a lot like John Walker Lindh. No real cultural or ethnic reason that he should be drawn into Al Qaeda, but somehow he is. I sorta got the impression listening to the radio that this guy could have easily been those assholes from Columbine High School if they hadn't ended up shooting themselves. American al Qaeda (that I've heard of) seem different than the homegrown terrorist types in the UK. These guys seem like lost loners looking for a way to be shocking.

Anyhow, I thought that the interview was interesting.

The American recruits differ from the UK recruits in the sense that they did not necesarily have an existing support network of radical muslims to seek out. However, they are exactly like all of the radicals in that they are drawn to an extreme position because they feel frustrated and impotent with their life as it is. Engaging in terrorist activity allows them to force the world to pay attention. It's a mindset that is very close to the boys at Columbine and other spree killers.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Hank's movie made shit up to smear Clinton.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Hank's movie made shit up to smear Clinton.

the guy who wrote the book? who would have thought he would disagree? does the DU provide any independant support?

edit: spanky has been working on a post for quite awhile now- watch out!