Posting Towards Gomorrah

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Spanky
You guys are like talking to candidates. Lets just say that all attempts at getting the Iranians to stop fail (which is exactly what I believe will happen - this whole diplomatic thing is just a stupid dance). Israel bombs but we know they are still progressing with the nukes. Do we invade?

Yes.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I guess my point is, the military option is probably necessary here, whether we carry it out or Israel does. Do you agree?

Isreal doesn't have the option of invading like we do. But I don't really think we have that option either.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I guess my point is, the military option is probably necessary here, whether we carry it out or Israel does. Do you agree?

I don't think we have a good military option. I was just readin this in Slate, and it sounds like what I've heard elsewhere:

• We don't have the manpower for an invasion. Airstrikes would, at best, set back Iran's nuclear program by a few years and would, meanwhile, incite every terrorist organization in the world, discredit every moderate Muslim movement, and shore up Iran's unpopular government like no action could.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Spanky
Isreal doesn't have the option of invading like we do. But I don't really think we have that option either.

How about bombing? I don't know that I am advocating ground troops. I think if we took out the government or created enough instability by bombing, internal forces would solve the problem This is isn't an Iraq, with Sunni Shi'a and Kurds who hate each other; or a Paki with a huge radical aggressive population. There is a supermajority of people who would probably construct a relatively democrat open to the west society and then some oppressvive crazies at the top. Remove the crazies and it ain't a half bad place.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
How about bombing? I don't know that I am advocating ground troops. I think if we took out the government or created enough instability by bombing, internal forces would solve the problem This is isn't an Iraq, with Sunni Shi'a and Kurds who hate each other; or a Paki with a huge radical aggressive population. There is a supermajority of people who would probably construct a relatively democrat open to the west society and then some oppressvive crazies at the top. Remove the crazies and it ain't a half bad place.

The regime has been in power for pushing 30 years and it hasn't toppled yet.

And don't even get me started on the notion that bombing Iran will get them to replace their own government. See how well that plan worked in Lebanon?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I don't think we have a good military option. I was just readin this in Slate, and it sounds like what I've heard elsewhere:
.[/list]

Slate is no more persuasive a source to me than World Net Daily or Kos.

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
incite every terrorist organization in the world,

they are already incited, what are they going to do, go to 11? If they could take down a plane in the US again they would. When they can again, they will. Nothing we do or don't do is going to make them any more or less of a threat.

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
discredit every moderate Muslim movement,

Cite to this movement please?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The regime has been in power for pushing 30 years and it hasn't toppled yet.

And don't even get me started on the notion that bombing Iran will get them to replace their own government. See how well that plan worked in Lebanon?

They have effectively oppressed. the people need some help.

Lebanon has factions that Iran doesn't and is also occupied by foreign powers and foreign backed militias.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Slate is no more persuasive a source to me than World Net Daily or Kos.

they are already incited, what are they going to do, go to 11? If they could take down a plane in the US again they would. When they can again, they will. Nothing we do or don't do is going to make them any more or less of a threat.

Cite to this movement please?

Golly Penske -- maybe we should invade Iran. It sounds so crazy it just might work.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Golly Penske -- maybe we should invade Iran. It sounds so crazy it just might work.

Word!

[SlaveNoMore]

Gattigap
IWhat is Rudy-esque about it?

October 28, 2005

Ten years ago this week, the UN was marking its fiftieth anniversary with a series of events around New York City, including an Oct. 23 invitation-only Lincoln Center concert performed by the New York Philharmonic for a glittering list of dignitaries and diplomats. When Rudy Giuliani spotted Yasser Arafat and his entourage making their way to a private box seat near the stage that evening, the mayor immediately ordered the Palestinian leader off the premises.

The man in the street cheered the mayor’s gutsy move, but the city’s liberal elite was appalled. "The proper role of New York, as the UN’s home city," sniffed The New York Times, "is to play gracious host to all of the 140 or so world leaders present for the organization’s gala 50th birthday celebrations."

A spokesman for the Clinton administration, which had done so much to build up Arafat’s reputation as a statesman, termed Giuliani’s action "an embarrassment to everyone associated with diplomacy."

Former mayors David Dinkins and Ed Koch held a joint press conference to denounce Giuliani. "Mayor Giuliani has behavioral problems dealing with other people," Koch told reporters.

Two days after the concert an unrepentant Giuliani said, "I would not invite Yasser Arafat to anything, anywhere, anytime, anyplace. I don’t forget."...

link

Clinton's comments are strikingly similar to those supporting this tyrant's tour of the US.

Plus ça change...

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
...discredit every moderate Muslim movement

This line is the inherent problem with current thinking.

Whereas there may very well be millions of moderate muslims, there is no "moderate Muslim movement"

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
link

Clinton's comments are strikingly similar to those supporting this tyrant's tour of the US.

Plus ça change...

Remind me, did TY ever repudiate his support of Arafat?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
They have effectively oppressed. the people need some help.

More recently, they were oppressed into electing their current government.

Lebanon has factions that Iran doesn't and is also occupied by foreign powers and foreign backed militias.

Which presumably explains why the foreign-backed militia got more popular as Israeli bombed them, but Iran's government would somehow lose support?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Hank's movie smears the Washington Post for reporting by the (conservative) Washington Times that (allegedly, but not really) tipped off bin Laden that we were using his cell phone to track him.

You just can't make this stuff. Oops -- I guess you can.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
More recently, they were oppressed into electing their current government.

Yes. Are you telling me that when Saddam was "re-elected" by 99% that it was a real election? Anymore than a mullah election would be?

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop


Which presumably explains why the foreign-backed militia got more popular as Israeli bombed them, but Iran's government would somehow lose support?

The people are not supporting the militia, the government is.