Posting Towards Gomorrah

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Is history from 500 plus years ago really relevant to create a moral equivalancy? Sure, people got killed 500 years ago in the name of christianity, and then the church lost power/changed its ways. We are living in today. If the crusades or inquisition were going on today, that would be problematic. they are not, they ancient history. You can say radical islam is a tiny minority of the religion, but thousands of people are dying from it and in its name on an annual basis and there is global unrest and wars worldwide based on it. It seems to be a little mroe of ciurrent day problem than the inquisitioons or the crusades.

As for Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, again, compare and contrast deaths that they or thbeir preaching have directly or indirectly caused versus those deaths that have occured in the name of Allah as carried out by Al Aqeada in the last 6 years.

You're using body count as a proxy for moral equivalency? Our murders are okay beccause they were a long time ago?

The deaths caused by Al-qaeda in the last six years probably don't even equal the number of deaths in Belfast alone in the last century. Or is 100 years too far back?

Murder is murder. Hate is hate. And you're preaching both.

And if you're just fucking with people, you're sick.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
How many deaths were there in Ireland in the last 40 years based on sectarian violence? As many as on 911? Slightly more? I think you lose, plus it was a concentrated area. If the only Islam generated war was in an area the size of Ireland and as geo-strategically unimportant as Ireland, the effect globally would be nil, we would not be having this discussion.

As for your other examples, have they occurred in the last 100 years? Get relevant. Violence and oppression from JUdeo-Christian groups is as big a problem as Hitler's Nazi party (although his intellectual anti-semitic descendants throughout Weuopre are a problem as they support the jihadis)
.



Yes, you should. Please rationalize how modern day Judeo-Christian adherents are posing as big a global threat to peace as radical Islam. Maybe its only a couple tens of millions of radical adherents, but there is no liberal or moderate group of Islamics holding the radical side in check.

I'm done with this.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Apparently you didn't need the memo. You and Penske seem to be the authors. And, by the way, what "you guys" are you referring to? You've become so proficient at using generalities and thinking in labels I can't keep track any more.

Post empirical numbers that are convincing or stop being a wilful idiot.

I.,e

Please cite the number of deaths in the name of Judeo-Christian religions over the last 50 years versus those in the name of Islam. Also give us an account over the last decade so we can compare and contrast any relevant trending.

Also, please cite the list of wars or insurgencies going on globablly in the name of a Judeo-Chrisitian god and a list for comparision of the wars or insurgencies that are being fought in the name of Islam, radical or otherwise.

Also, please cite the list of oppressive non-democratic governments based upon Judeo-Christian religions and then for comparison the list of oppressive non-democratic governments based upon Islam.

I look forward to reviewing and being able to agree with you that JudoeoC-rhistian based religions are as much of a problem in the modern day world to peace and freedom as radical Islam is.

[SlaveNoMore]

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Why? If you suggest that Islam is in itself a failed religion, then it is highly relevant that a religion that could be deemed to have failed in a similar way several hundred years ago is now touted as a model.

It's "failed" in the sense that it is a backward, barbaric throwback - that viciously persecutes women and is wholly intolerant of others.

[SlaveNoMore]

Penske_Account
Yes, you should. Please rationalize how modern day Judeo-Christian adherents are posing as big a global threat to peace as radical Islam. Maybe its only a couple tens of millions of radical adherents, but there is no liberal or moderate group of Islamics holding the radical side in check.

Post empirical numbers that are convincing or stop being a wilful idiot.

I.,e

Please cite the number of deaths in the name of Judeo-Christian religions over the last 50 years versus those in the name of Islam. Also give us an account over the last decade so we can compare and contrast any relevant trending.

Also, please cite the list of wars or insurgencies going on globablly in the name of a Judeo-Chrisitian god and a list for comparision of the wars or insurgencies that are being fought in the name of Islam, radical or otherwise.

Also, please cite the list of oppressive non-democratic governments based upon Judeo-Christian religions and then for comparison the list of oppressive non-democratic governments based upon Islam.

I look forward to reviewing and being able to agree with you that JudoeoC-rhistian based religions are as much of a problem in the modern day world to peace and freedom as radical Islam is.

:td:

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by taxwonk
You're using body count as a proxy for moral equivalency? Our murders are okay beccause they were a long time ago?

.

None of them are my murders, I am not sure which you are taking responsibility for. That said, oppression and murder by the CAtholic church 500 years ago, imo, is not relevant to today. It is not a topic that has any impact on modern politics or life, unless you are trying to justify murder and oppression in the name of Islam now based upon moral equivalancy and that is just twisted. Is slavery in other countries okay because we used to do it or is wrong because its wrong?

Originally posted by taxwonk


The deaths caused by Al-qaeda in the last six years probably don't even equal the number of deaths in Belfast alone in the last century. Or is 100 years too far back?

A quick google search led me to wikipedia. The calculated death count for sectarian violence in Ireland for the period from the mid 60s through late 90s was about 1800. Maybe if you go back another 40 or 50 years you would hit the 3000 Al Qaeda got in a day. Morally equivalent? Twisted.

Originally posted by taxwonk


Murder is murder. Hate is hate. And you're preaching both.

And if you're just fucking with people, you're sick.

You're blind and delusional. If the catholic church was engaged in the Inquisition today, I would say it was wrong and the church and religion needs to reform itself. Its not about hate, its about being analysing a problem and identifying a common root. I would applaud the moderate and liberal wings of the Islamic party if they called the radicals into account. I am waiting.....

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I am not, I am looking at the facts. IN all (or at least the superduper majority) of the pleaces you cite, the killings are predicated on radicla Islam and the authority of Muhammed (which is why he is relevant). Show me the stats where I am wrong?

If I am correctly informed, many many more Muslems believe that Islam forbids suicide bombing than believe that it permits or encourages it. What do you make of this? Meanwhile, the worst user of suicide bombings has been the Liberation Tigers of Sri Lanka. Does this mean that Hinduism is a particularly violent religion?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by taxwonk
I'm done with this.

Because you can't back up your empty moral equivallication. That's not being done, its losing.

Hank, score one for us.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Do you have cite to a quote he has made in the last 100 years where he said soemthing of the sort Slave noted? Otherwise you lose for relevancy.

eta: ps: do you have a cite to a quote that one of his followers has made in the last 100 years where such follower said soemthing of the sort Slave noted and predicated that statement on Luther's influence, guidance, or authority etc.

I'm sorry, the bulk of cites I have of nasty Lutheran quotes relate to a little attempt to eradicate a minor group of non-believers that happened in Germany about 65 years ago -- I expect this is both too historical for you and, since it only addressed this small group of so-called "chosen people" rather than all non-believers, probably not on point anyways.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
It's "failed" in the sense that it is a backward, barbaric throwback - that viciously persecutes women and is wholly intolerant of others.

In fairness I still believe it is only failing. If the CAtholic church could reform, perhaps there is hope.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
:td:

:sportswav :band: :thumbsup: :guitar:

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
Does this mean that Hinduism is a particularly violent religion?

Tamils aren't all Hindu and they are hardly trying to secede from Sri Lanka on account of religion.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
If I am correctly informed, many many more Muslems believe that Islam forbids suicide bombing than believe that it permits or encourages it. What do you make of this?

It gives me some solace that the hope I have placed in Islam being only a failing but redeemable, and not failed religion is not misplaced. I can't wait until the moderates reign in the radicals and the global threats start to lessen. We will drink heartily of my stash of Harlan Estate on that day my brother.

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Meanwhile, the worst user of suicide bombings has been the Liberation Tigers of Sri Lanka. Does this mean that Hinduism is a particularly violent religion?

Define "worst" in the above context. please.

[SlaveNoMore]

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I'm sorry, the bulk of cites I have of nasty Lutheran quotes relate to a little attempt to eradicate a minor group of non-believers that happened in Germany about 65 years ago -- I expect this is both too historical for you and, since it only addressed this small group of so-called "chosen people" rather than all non-believers, probably not on point anyways.

Right - Hitler killed the Jews in the name of Christ. I think I missed that one.

Then again, according the the "elected" leader of Iran (and numerous other leading Muslim voices), the Holocaust never actually happened.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by taxwonk
Islam is the largest religion on the planet.

Which planet are you talking about?