Posting Towards Gomorrah

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by nononono
But as between him and Clinton, yes, he was.

Indeed.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Indeed.

But Clinton stayed in Haiti when the politicaly expedient thing, and the popular thing would have been to leave and just blame the whole thing on Bush I. He stuck it out in Haiti, when there was no political upside, because that was right thing to do.

At least that is my opinion.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
But Clinton stayed in Haiti when the politicaly expedient thing, and the popular thing would have been to leave and just blame the whole thing on Bush I. He stuck it out in Haiti, when there was no political upside, because that was right thing to do.

At least that is my opinion.

I don't question his intentions, but did he have anything to show for it?

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
We can do even more damage to ourselves. They can't force us to abandon key principles of our legal system like habeas corpus or to torture people -- those wounds are self-inflicted.

That's a problem for all democracies fighting terrorism. The natural fear and reaction to attacks leads to strong measures, including curtailing civil rights/freedom to some extent, in the name of security.

The British faced that issue, and had a similar response, in the long battle against the IRA. [And their Lord Chancellor (?) reecently issued a friendly warning to the U.S. not to make the same mistakes Britain did.]

That said, England has survived, although they're not exactly the same as before, and I figure we will too -- especially so long as we have lots of folks who care enough to push back on these issues.

S_A_M

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I don't question his intentions, but did he have anything to show for it?

I believe they still have a democratically elected government. Whatever is happening over there it is better than what was happening under Papa Doc. He was not a nice man. Neither was his father.

[Spanky]

[SlaveNoMore]

Secret_Agent_Man
That said, England has survived, although they're not exactly the same as before, and I figure we will too -- especially so long as we have lots of folks who care enough to push back on these issues.

England has quite the ever-growing problem with their "asian"* minority these days.

Not exactly an enviable situation


*I love how they refer to Muslims as "asians"

[nononono]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I don't question his intentions, but did he have anything to show for it?

Maybe not, but it was the right and courageous thing for Bush to have done, and I would say that staying there was one of the few "right" things Clinton did...until he didn't. That country was thirsty for help, and they needed (need) it bad. Unfortunately, we didn't do a whole nation-building thing, which it needed (seriously, ground up - roads, education, homes, everything), and at the time people wanted. They have an unfortunate habit of collecting corrupt (in various ways) leaders, and they get fucked every time.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
England has quite the ever-growing problem with their "asian"* minority these days.

Not exactly an enviable situation


*I love how they refer to Muslims as "asians"

True.

Do you attribute that to anything in particular (other than being a part of the EU)? Should they have been cracking down harder?

(They've started shutting down inflammatory imams recently -- which would be much harder to do in the U.S. given the Bill fo Rights.)

S_A_M

[Secret_Agent_Man]

but I'm glad to see he's keeping busy.

S_A_M

[It had been a week, and no one had even mentioned the stories about the President of Israel. I just had to use my joke.]

[Gattigap]

Good news, guys!

NY Sun:

• An alleged operative for Al Qaeda imprisoned for 3 1/2 years as an enemy combatant is saying he was tortured and forcibly medicated with "a sort of truth serum" while in a Navy brig.
  
  ...
  
  "Additionally, Padilla was given drugs against his will, believed to be some form of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) or phencyclidine (PCP), to act as a sort of truth serum during his interrogations."

Bush and Rove have sensed some of the disaffection among Republican voters and has heard their cries. The GOP Machine is also thinking forward, moving beyond its outreach to various racial and ethnic groups, and instead here reaches out to tap the vast Libertarian and Democratic drug enthusiast demographic.

Now that it's out that Padilla was "tortured" with LSD and PCP, look for a tidal wave of GOP support in early November, followed by mass arrests of suddenly converted America-haters who can't wait to tell the government everything they know.

Gattigap

[Jack Manfred]

So a couple months ago, Governor Schwarzenegger gets in trouble for off the record remarks that a Latino legislator is "hot-blooded."

Now clearly, that's politically incorrect, but what if he happens to be right?

[SlaveNoMore]

Secret_Agent_Man
True.

Do you attribute that to anything in particular (other than being a part of the EU)? Should they have been cracking down harder?

(They've started shutting down inflammatory imams recently -- which would be much harder to do in the U.S. given the Bill fo Rights.)

S_A_M

It's the fault of European ghetto-izing and non-assimilation of Muslim foreigners. BTW, Dearborn, MI is apparently only a few years behind.

But England has nothing on France, which is practically (and silently, judging by the media) in the initial stages of a Civil War. There has been violence, escalating daily, in the Northern Paris suburbs for over a year.

[SlaveNoMore]

but - for the love of god - don't send them back to us:

WASHINGTON (Al-Reuters) - Britain and other U.S. allies have demanded closure of the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, but have also blocked efforts to let some prisoners return home, The Washington Post reported on Tuesday.

British officials recently rejected a U.S. offer to transfer 10 former British residents from Guantanamo to the United Kingdom, arguing that it would be too expensive to keep them under surveillance, the newspaper said, citing documents made public this month in London.

Britain has also staved off a legal challenge by the relatives of some prisoners who sued to require the British government to seek their release, The Washington Post said.

While all British citizens in Guantanamo were freed starting in 2004, Britain has balked at allowing former legal residents of the country to return, the newspaper said.

Germany and other European allies, which have spoken out against Guantanamo, also have balked at accepting prisoners from the facility, the Post said.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
BTW, Dearborn, MI is apparently only a few years behind.

Is this from LGF? Dearborn is not an insulated ghetto. It is a pretty vibrant city with a mostly employed population. the Arab community here is not poor or on the verge of riots. They do want prayer calls.

I post this to show there is hope if people all assimilate.