Posting Towards Gomorrah - Page 223

sgtclub · 10-20-2006, 11:21 AM

Lieberman opens 17 point lead: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...10-20-08-23-38

Gattigap · 10-20-2006, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Lieberman opens 17 point lead: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...10-20-08-23-38

I wonder if the blogger triumphalists will interpret this as (a) maybe they can't actually move elections with the brute force of their keyboards, (b) maybe Lamont is simply a shit candidate, or (c) some other rationale.

Secret_Agent_Man · 10-20-2006, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub

North Korean leader Kim Jong Il said Pyongyang didn't plan to carry out any more nuclear tests and expressed regret about the country's first-ever atomic detonation last week, a South Korean news agency reported Friday.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/20/D8KSCOOO0.html

Must be. The apology surprised me -- not like they can say it was a mistake, accident, or that they didnt' think it through. It takes months/years of preparation.

S_A_M

Shape Shifter · 10-20-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Must be. The apology surprised me -- not like they can say it was a mistake, accident, or that they didnt' think it through. It takes months/years of preparation.

S_A_M

They were just cleaning it and it went off.

Secret_Agent_Man · 10-20-2006, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Lieberman opens 17 point lead: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...10-20-08-23-38

Great News.

I think a Lamont win would be one of the worst things that could happen to the Democratic Party. Not suggesting he is a lunatic, because he is milder than many, but because of the effect it would have on the internal party dynamic.

I want the progressives to be energized enough to come out and vote and work for the Dems, but also to realize that the candidates they consider ideal won't win on a broader stage.

Plus, I like and tend to agree with Joe.

S_A_M

[Besides, he'll caucus with the Democrats -- which is what really matters.]

Tyrone Slothrop · 10-20-2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Lieberman opens 17 point lead: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...10-20-08-23-38

Is there something about Lieberman you actually like, or do you just take a Penske-like pleasure in things that irritate the left?

Tyrone Slothrop · 10-20-2006, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Plus, I like and tend to agree with Joe.

Many Democrats tend to agree with Joe on the issues. What they -- I -- can't stand about him is his predilection to aggrandize himself by selling out his party. He's like the New Republic in this way -- they're perfect for each other. He's never happier than when he's sticking it rhetorically to those to his left, and winning the praise of the David Broders of the world.

If this is why you like him -- and, frankly, I suspect you of Broderesque tendencies -- then I'll ask you this: Name an issue since 2000 where Lieberman has leveraged his bipartisan cachet into some kind of actual policy achievement, as opposed to using it to look better. Is it just sizzle, or is there some steak? I would be more impressed with him if I thought he actually could get shit done, but I don't see it.

Quote:

[Besides, he'll caucus with the Democrats -- which is what really matters.]

He's made a number of statements lately that cause people to question this. I happen to agree with you, for two reasons: (1) He's trying to get Republicans to vote for him, and (2) Once he decides to caucus as a Republican, his days of striking the bipartisan pose as the responsible Democrat on the Sunday morning talk shows are over, and he becomes just another Richard Shelby.

Hank Chinaski · 10-20-2006, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Is there something about Lieberman you actually like, or do you just take a Penske-like pleasure in things that irritate the left?

we want Move-On to go bankrupt never having won a thing- like Air America did.

Secret_Agent_Man · 10-20-2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Many Democrats tend to agree with Joe on the issues.

But not the ones who voted for Lamont.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What they -- I -- can't stand about him is his predilection to aggrandize himself by selling out his party. He's like the New Republic in this way -- they're perfect for each other. He's never happier than when he's sticking it rhetorically to those to his left, and winning the praise of the David Broders of the world.

Not sure what this means. I tend to think that both parties and their extremes need it stuck to them a fair amount, and I tend to admire people who do it. Party loyalty is overrated. He is a bit smug and self-aggrandizing, but that's not uncommon among successful career politicians.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
If this is why you like him -- and, frankly, I suspect you of Broderesque tendencies -- then I'll ask you this: Name an issue since 2000 where Lieberman has leveraged his bipartisan cachet into some kind of actual policy achievement, as opposed to using it to look better. Is it just sizzle, or is there some steak? I would be more impressed with him if I thought he actually could get shit done, but I don't see it.

Can't think of a big one (aside from maybe the judicial filibuster compromise) -- but it takes 2 to be bipartisan. There has been little opportunity for that over the past fewl years, because the GOP has had enough of a majority that they didn't have to compromise much on most issues.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
He's made a number of statements lately that cause people to question this. I happen to agree with you, for two reasons: (1) He's trying to get Republicans to vote for him, and (2) Once he decides to caucus as a Republican, his days of striking the bipartisan pose as the responsible Democrat on the Sunday morning talk shows are over, and he becomes just another Richard Shelby.

He has flat out said he'll caucus with the Democrats, and Joe isn't a liar.

S_A_M

Tyrone Slothrop · 10-20-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
But not the ones who voted for Lamont.

I disagree you with you there. Lamont is not that lefty. I suspect that two things drove voters to Lamont: (1) Iraq, and (2) Joe's penchant for whacking Democrats as a matter of style.

And it's really the second, not the first. There are other Democrats who had Joe's position on Iraq and who are up for re-election this year -- Maria Cantwell, Dianne Feinstein -- have not sparked Lamonts to run against them. In that regard, Joe is sui generis.

Quote:

Not sure what this means. I tend to think that both parties and their extremes need it stuck to them a fair amount, and I tend to admire people who do it. Party loyalty is overrated. He is a bit smug and self-aggrandizing, but that's not uncommon among successful career politicians.

What you say made sense a decade or two years ago. But Democrats who strike a bipartisan pose with this Admininstration get used, and get nothing for it. Except the ego-striking that Joe loves. Most politicians are self-aggrandizing, but those who do it at the expense of their own party are in a different category.

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Can't think of a big one (aside from maybe the judicial filibuster compromise) --

Not even a small one. (The judicial filibuster "compromise" didn't actually accomplish anything for those who -- like Lieberman -- professed to have some concern about Bush's appointments. Nothing.) Because Lieberman cares about striking a centrist pose, not about accomplishing anything. If you're going to sell out your party, you should be getting something out of it.

Quote:

-- but it takes 2 to be bipartisan. There has been little opportunity for that over the past fewl years, because the GOP has had enough of a majority that they didn't have to compromise much on most issues.

No shit. And yet Lieberman either hasn't figured that out or is happy to lend a bipartisan facade without getting anything in return except that accolades of the David Broders of the world. And let's face it -- he's not stupid.

Quote:

He has flat out said he'll caucus with the Democrats, and Joe isn't a liar.

I'm inclined to agree with you, but if he isn't a liar then he's certain a bullshitter:

Lieberman -- who needs GOP votes as an independent -- was asked in an interview published today in the Hartford Courant whether America would be better off if his lifelong party took back the House. The Courant reports that Lieberman responded: "Uh, I haven't thought about that enough to give an answer."

linky

You like this side of him?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy · 10-20-2006, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Many Democrats tend to agree with Joe on the issues. What they -- I -- can't stand about him is his predilection to aggrandize himself by selling out his party.

Joe seems like an OK but not terribly effective Senator. Frankly, he should have gotten a lot more, on a policy level, for cozying up to Bush and the War than he did. Some I'll give you bipartisan support on this issue and take my lumps, but let's see you do some bipartisan support stuff on education, for example. I view Connecticut as fundamentally unexciting - Connecticut will have a decent but not stellar Senator either way when the dust settled.

Quote:

He's like the New Republic in this way -- they're perfect for each other.

I don't understand this - the New Republic gave up any pretense of being oriented toward the Democrats 20 years ago. There is still a lot of difference between Joe and the Republican alternatives.

Penske_Account · 10-20-2006, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
maybe Lamont is simply a shit candidate, or (c) some other rationale.

Maybe Lamont is a big fucking elitist douchebag hypocrit, like all of the elitist dems who are wealthy. Its fine for them to have their cake, but they want to impose socialism on the rest of us. I frequently ask myself, if God saw fit to snuff the first three kennedy borthers before they could too much harm, why has he left us with Ted for so long.......then I remember that until the second coming, Satan still has some powers.

Yay Connectict, yay Lieberman.

Penske_Account · 10-20-2006, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
They were just cleaning it and it went off.

Locked and loaded?

Penske_Account · 10-20-2006, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Is there something about Lieberman you actually like, or do you just take a Penske-like pleasure in things that irritate the left?

Lieberman is a centrist, Lamont is an elitist Islamofacist supporting socialist. Why isn't that enough? Why would you want someone like that to have the reigns of control of your party? Do you hate America?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy · 10-20-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Lieberman is a centrist, Lamont is an elitist Islamofacist supporting socialist. Why isn't that enough? Why would you want someone like that to have the reigns of control of your party? Do you hate America?

Thank you. This is the kind of approach to problems that is going to cost the Rs in November. One thing about both Lamont and Lieberman, they each are ready to focus on and deal with issues, rather than the Rover strategy of deny, distract and distort.

Please, please, hit us again!